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All this thread tells me is how little memory people have. Late into Obama's office, he brokered a deal that would have reduced Iran's ability to create wmds in exchange for lifting sanctions while giving the rest of the world the ability to monitor them to make sure they actually stop trying to make a wmd. Trump infamously cancelled this deal early into his first run and now people are acting like he's doing a good job by wanting to attack Iran- Trump created this problem in the first place!
Trump created this problem in the first place!
I think it's good to be absolutely crystal clear on what the problem is. Iran is not building nuclear weapons. They say this themselves, and the entire American intelligence community, as well as the UN's IAEA agree that they haven't since 2003. The amount of evidence that Iran is building WMDs is exactly the same as it was for Iraq in the early 2000s (i.e., non-existent). So that's not the problem.
Trump created this problem in the first place!
That's his whole strategy and always has been. Manufacture a crisis when something doesn't go right and reduce risk of getting closer to an orange jumpsuit. Ever notice nobody is talking about the Epstein Files now? He always pops ninja smoke. Only his poof of smoke is this giant splatter of shit that makes a mess for everyone to clean up while he escapes. The other big factor of this is that 75 million Americans are happy to clean all that up and ask for more.
Can someone fill me in, is there any actually grounds for Israel to attack Iran and why is the United States involved, y'know other than the usual simping for Israel.
The claim is (as always), Iran is on the verge of having nuclear weapons.
The whole idea is that if Iran did get nuclear weapons, it would be too risky to attack them, and that they could use their immunity from being attacked to make the world a much worse place.
I don't know if we should believe the assessments of their capabilities. Israel has been saying they're days, weeks or months away from having a nuclear weapon for going on 30 years now. But, AFAIK, nobody has actually said that they currently do have WMD.
This is a dumb meme because the whole argument is that if Iran gets nukes then we won't be able to attack them.
However I do think it's funny how many of the justifications for the unprovoked attacks on Iran sound exactly like Russian justifications if you just switch a couple names around:
Iran having nukes is a threat to the US security/Ukraine joining NATO (which would allow them to station nukes there) is a threat to Russian security
Iran's government is full of radical Islamists/Ukraine's government is full of Banderite Nazis
Iran is firing ordinance off at civilian targets in Israel, as part of their aim to exterminate Jews/Ukraine is firing ordinance off at civilian targets in Donbass, as part of their aim to exterminate Russians.
It's very silly how all these arguments are accepted as "obvious" and reasonable when it's our side, but flip the picture and it suddenly it becomes just as "obvious" that those lines of reasoning are not valid. At no point is either Iran or Russia's perspective seriously considered because they're the bad guys and we're the good guys, whether and to what extent those reasons are valid simply flips depending on who's using them.
Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
I'd like to thank the mods for leaving conflicting comments up. I've seen too many echo chambers going up on lemmy. Appreciate you all. Also appreciate those I don't agree with for sharing their ideas, calling me out on mine and sometimes changing my mind, and taking the time for discourse. Those who argue in bad faith, have no open mind, and pretend to have empathy, fuck yourself.
No one has said they have a working WMD, but that they are very close to one and that they cannot be allowed to have one because it would cause the same kind of stalemate that we have with Russia.
It’s sound logic my guy. Why are people defending the woman hating, gay killing, non democratic regime again?
that they cannot be allowed to have one because it would cause the same kind of stalemate that we have with Russia.
Because the West is such a force of good in the Middle East that someone being able to stand up to them is a bad thing?
Because I don't want the woman hating, gay oppressing, non democratic regime with thousands of working WMDs that I live in to start another fucking war
Why are people defending the woman hating, gay killing, non democratic regime again?
Yeah, fuck the US, why are people defending it?
Whatever you think of the Iranian government, (they're not good, but also blame the US for helping put them there in the first place) there is only one country in history that has ever used nuclear weapons and they used it on civilian populations, twice. That same country has been invading one country or another for most of it's history, devastating civilians in the process all for the sake of greed. THAT is the country that is policing the world, deciding who's too "dangerous" to have what is apparently the only deterrent to it's routine aggression.
The only way to not recognize this for what it is is to have never stopped to think about the American exceptionalism propaganda you've been fed your entire life. We're not the good guys. Even if we want to see a better government in these countries, the US is more likely to impede that and install a different dictator than they are to usher in a proper democracy. See: Vietnam, Korea, most of Latin America, various post-soviet countries, various countries in the middle east, others that I'm probably not thinking of and.. oh right: IRAN!
Lets not forget, the USA has been at war for BY FAR the majority of its life, I think but dont quote me on this the US has only been at peace for 2 years
Yeah it's kind of hard to figure out because there are so many things that aren't major wars we learn all about. When I thought about this before, even if you just count the big ones, the US hasn't been at peace for more than 20 years at a time. We've been at war for over 80% of my life. It's crazy how normal it feels despite that. We are super sheltered from the consequences of all of this.
I agree and fucking hate the regime. Can't wait for them to live free.
But, Jon Stewart got through to me the other day with video clips of Netanyahu claiming the nukes were almost built over and over for 15 years. I'm anti war and and don't want another Iraq under false pretense. I would love for the people to get their democracy back without casualty.
I believe it's the reason the West is in Israel. And that it's probably only under control bc of that. But questioning the legitimacy of there being any urgency.
Absolutely NOBODY involved in this escalation gives one single fuck AT ALL about liberating the Iranian people. None. Nobody. Zilch. Zero. This is PURELY a capitalist venture to enrich assholes and fuel the power of radical fascists. There is ZERO benefit to ANYONE else. None. Zilch. Zero.
Why are people defending the woman hating, gay killing, non democratic regime again?
Strawman me harder daddy
HOW LONG have everyone who just happens to be anti-Iran been saying that they ALMOST have a nuke?
How many nukes does Israel have and QUITE illegally?
Iran SHOULD have a nuke as a deterrent against the most violent terrorist nation in the ME.
