this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2025
704 points (98.8% liked)

Technology

71922 readers
4095 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related news or articles.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

The revived No JS Club celebrates websites that don't use Javascript, the powerful but sometimes overused code that's been bloating the web and crashing tabs since 1995. The No CSS Club goes a step further and forbids even a scrap of styling beyond the browser defaults. And there is even the No HTML Club, where you're not even allowed to use HTML. Plain text websites!

The modern web is the pure incarnation of evil. When Satan has a 1v1 with his manager, he confers with the modern web. If Satan is Sauron, then the modern web is Melkor [1]. Every horror that you can imagine is because of the modern web. Modern web is not an existential risk (X-risk), but is an astronomic suffering risk (S-risk) [2]. It is the duty of each and every man, woman, and child to revolt against it. If you're not working on returning civilization to ooga-booga, you're a bad person.

A compromise with the clubs is called for. A hypertext brutalism that uses the raw materials of the web to functional, honest ends while allowing web technologies to support clarity, legibility and accessibility. Compare this notion to the web brutalism of recent times, which started off in similar vein but soon became a self-subverting aesthetic: sites using 2.4MB frameworks to add text-shadow: 40px 40px 0px hotpink to 400kb Helvetica webfonts that were already on your computer.

I also like the idea of implementing "hypotext" as an inversion of hypertext. This would somehow avoid the failure modes of extending the structure of text by failing in other ways that are more fun. But I'm in two minds about whether that would be just a toy (e.g. references banished to metadata, i.e. footnotes are the hypertext) or something more conceptual that uses references to collapse the structure of text rather than extend it (e.g. links are includes and going near them spaghettifies your brain). The term is already in use in a structuralist sense, which is to say there are 2 million words of French I have to read first if I want to get away with any of this.

Republished Under Creative Commons Terms. Boing Boing Original Article.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 3 points 34 minutes ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 13 minutes ago

That is made by someone who had a Geocities website, or went 1000% in on MySpace back in the day.

[–] mad_lentil 3 points 1 hour ago

I guess all that's left is to form a no-utf club.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 hours ago

That is just stupid. How about a slighly more complex markdown.

What I really want is a P2P archive of all the relevant news articles of the last decades in markdown like in firefox "reader view". And some super advanced LLM powered text compression so you can easily store a copy of 20% of them on your PC to share P2P.

Much of the information on the internet could vanish within months if we face some global economic crisis.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I host my own website, and I decided to rewrite the JS portions in React, in order to learn the framework. Boy was it a learning experience: To do the same thing required 2-4 times the amount of code—and that’s just in the scripts, let alone the all the bloat from the packages and the bundler.

I know this is a bit more radical than cutting out frameworks, but working with the JS ecosystem was such a pain, largely because there’s you need to piece together different software to make a stack work, which may or may not go together well. And since your stack is likely unique, good luck getting help on your problems. It made me miss Rust (albeit most languages do)—in Rust, you have Cargo for everything, and it’s beautiful. Rust has its own difficulties, but they actually feel surmountable compared to the dependency hell of JS.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

The dependency hell of JS is caused by React. It's an ironic turn because node gained popularity in part because it was one of the first to have a coupled package manager with a massive public contribution model, full of a billion packages that follow the unix philosophy of "everything should do only one thing, and do it well" Dependency hell would disappear if people stopped popularizing competing swiss army knives. It's made worse by people trying to mash these swiss army knives together just to improve portfolio.

We've gotten to the point where you aren't considered a real professional unless you start even the smallest projects with maximum technical debt.

It should never be impressive that you used a tool. If the tool made programming it easier then it's not a mental feat. If the tool made programming it harder, then people should think you are kind of slow for using a tool that made development harder. This is why brag culture over what tools are used makes no sense. Just use tools that make life easier. If it doesn't make life easier, stop using it.

[–] mad_lentil 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

We’ve gotten to the point where you aren’t considered a real professional unless you start even the smallest projects with maximum technical debt.

They're just following the example laid out by the venture capital model, really.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 hours ago

JavaScript, the powerful but sometimes overused code

now there's an understatement.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Oh neat! I'm working on a forum that doesn't use any javascript

[–] mad_lentil 1 points 1 hour ago
[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I'll say one thing for the No CSS philosophy - at least it eliminates light-colored text on a light-colored background using the thinnest possible font, which is probably the stupidest stylistic trend since the web began.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

In the future there will be media queries for how old the reader is.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Will teenagers with shitty vision be able to get away with lying about their age or will there be verification?

[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Get this bs outta here. I write on paper! No one knows my thoughts or feelings!!

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

What devilry is this? Written word? Real cultures use oral history to store knowledge!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Passing information between two simultaneously existing entities? Get outta here! All cultures use the Jung collective unconscious to store knowledge!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

WORDS???? The cheek of it!

[–] mad_lentil 1 points 59 minutes ago (1 children)

Thoughts in a contiguous sequence??!!? What utter bloat! Why even have a past or future when a pure consciousness need only experience the horizon of an infinite present.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 52 minutes ago

Ⰰ⭕☣╛⊄ⴓ⬤⡥◻ⶠ≣ℙ⡥≾⚽⡳↍ⴖ≋ℒ⊴⎟⼑⋪‡⛘⩎??!!? ⓿⑍▆╟❵! ▧⟺⛴∎Ⳗ⭥♟↠⤢⮪ⱎ⧏ⲇ⃲⿁⌔⋓!!

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

Just out of curiosity what percentage of people here are using Voyager as their Lemmy client?

Spoiler

Voyager wouldn’t work without JavaScript… shhh don’t tell anyone

[–] mad_lentil 1 points 58 minutes ago (1 children)

Ththat's different.. you take it back!!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 49 minutes ago* (last edited 47 minutes ago)

There are so many people here that hate cloud based services. And the same people also hate JavaScript. Like you realize if your app was just static JavaScript files, you could literally just download the entire site to your computer and run it? Why is JavaScript the enemy?

JavaScript isn’t the enemy. The enshitification of technology is the enemy.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 16 hours ago (6 children)

What we need is a subset of modern web, without any bloat, especially JS frameworks.

A lot of websites can be static HTML + CSS.

[–] mad_lentil 1 points 57 minutes ago

Maybe a little JS, as a treat?

It's fun for hiding little easter eggs.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 12 hours ago

The subset exists. What you're referring to is an agreement or convention.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

We have that, it’s called Gemini and is accessible with Lagrange

[–] mad_lentil 1 points 57 minutes ago

And Offpunk.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

I rather have these people embrace gopher

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›