NFL

Is Brees really a shoe in with no MVPs and only 1 ring?

Kind of related, but I'm always surprised that analytics doesn't have a similar stat to WRC does in baseball. It gives good number about a player's production, but more importantly it helps outline how much better production is relative to other players. If average is 100, a WRC of 113 says they are 13% more productive. I feel like this would really help distinguish eras and the explosion of offense we see today. On the flipside, it would also highlight just how dominate a player like Jerry Rice was given the lower offense production from that era

Eli is a lock too. Shouldn’t be. But he is.

This thread is nerdy as fuck.

Yall don’t know shit about football.

Cumulative stats in an era of increasing stat accumulation should not be a factor, unless you have Marino or Brady type excess. Rivers and Ryan are both very good, but never great QBs and aren’t worthy of HoF IMO.

Big Ben - Yes [two super bowl rings speaks for itself]

Matt Ryan - I'm gonna say no. At least not first ballot.

Rivers - Yes, but again, probably not first ballot.

I'm thinking Ben and Matt are locks. I'd have Rivers a notch or two below, not sure it he makes it.

I also think Eli Manning is a lock BTW, didn't notice you talking about him.

I don't think Ben gets in first ballot

How is big ben not a sure fire HoFer? He has two rings and put up great statistics.

If there’s a debate about a player then that’s a red flag for me. The HOF is getting watered down. I’m almost to the point where I feel like the first ballot guys are the worthy ones. Those dudes who were THE GUY at their position. Or at least one of two or three for the majority of their career, are the special ones.

Are they a first ballot HOFer? No? HOVG.

This will be extremely fascinating. The easy decision would just be to say the line is somewhere in the large gap between Brees and Roethlisberger. But realistically, Ben is a HOFer and his induction will open the debate for so many others (Eli, Rivers, Ryan, Russ, even Stafford would have to get a brief discussion).

This is why I really hope they wait several years before inducting anyone not named Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes.

Big ben is getting in. Its probably not gonna be first ballot but he will get in eventually with those superbowl rings and long career. Ryan and Rivers though...I feel like theyre right at the borderline of great player and hall of fame player. If either had a ring, I feel like it would be a shoo in. Maybe in a particularly weak class they might make it 10+ years down the road or senior comittee.

They lowered the bar when they inducted Joe Namath, his career numbers are actually bad. 50-50 winning percentage, 50% completion, 173 tds, 220 int.

I feel like you can only put so much weight into counting stats in the modern era.

I think Ben is borderline and Newton, Ryan, and Rivers are below borderline. Eli will probably get in Namath style

I've always thought that Big Ben is more product of great team play and coaching than his own skill.

He's played under two hall of fame coaches compared to the other QBs who had a revolving door of coaches but still constantly produced.

It's amazing to me that in my prime football-watching youth, we had like 3-4 clear HoF QBs in the league: Peyton, Brees, Brady, and then Rodgers.

After that though? Lots of debate.

Even among the current crop, who looks to be on that tier besides Mahomes'?

This game has been around for over 100 years. If you have a resume like the guys in the second tier, you absolutely need to be in. Passing happy era or not. To stay healthy and productive for that long is amazing.

Do y’all think Rivers hasn’t officially retired yet because he’s trying to put some space between himself and his counterparts?

Big Ben shouldn't be in the hall of fame simply bc he's a rapist.

Ben will make it. Ryan and rivers shouldnt. Eli manning will make it bc he has 2 rings even though he was never the best QB in his division.

I know I'm a homer, but Ben seems like a sure fire lock to me. Two SB wins, a third appearance. The only QB in the group above with that many is Brady.

I think Rivers gets in before Matt Ryan. Rivers played 2 more seasons, they have similar yardage, Rivers has the edge in touchdowns, and Rivers has a 0.558 record where Ryan has 0.532.

I know Ryan has a Super Bowl appearance where Rivers does not, but that didn't end all too well for Ryan. Reads like a black smudge.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ryan and Rivers both get in. Just may take a while.

Eli would be surprising...

It's not all about stats. Bradshaw barely threw more TD's than INT's over his career and he was a solid HoF lock (different era, yes). Rings do count, but so do "flashy" stats. Ben's 4 games over 500 yds passing is one of those for example.

Brady is an obvious lock. Rodgers is a lock. Ben is a lock. Eli gets in because of beating Brady in the Super Bowl twice. Brees gets in on performance/stats/records. Rivers has a shot but a slim one. Ryan is out.

Ben and Eli are in. Ryan and Rivers are not.

they all have great counting stats. Ben and Eli have the rings which are really important. Ryan has the 1 MVP but thats really it.. he only has 4 pro bowls even and pro bowls are a low bar. Rivers has no mvp, all pros, or rings- no shot.

Can anybody looking at this chart explain why Peyton Manning's score is 257 while Drew Brees is 140? I won't argue that Peyton may have been a slightly better QB, but the numbers don't bear out that big a gap and Brees bested Peyton both one-on-one and in most individual stat categories.

I’m fine if people don’t think Ryan will get in, just always blows my mind if that same person thinks rivers is more likely. His career is really close to just “matt Ryan with no Super Bowl appearance, one less championship appearance, and no mvp or all pro”.

If Dan Fouts is in the hall, Ryan, Rivers, and Big Ben are all getting in

I don’t know where the line is exactly but Troy Aikman is in and that gives a hell of a lot of leeway to borderline candidates

Honestly I think the Hall of Fame line is gonna be called the "Rivers Line" for a long time. If you had a better career than Rivers, you're in the HOF. Literally all Rivers needed was maybe an All Pro selection and/or a SB win and he makes it in. There's no debate on his individual skill. I think Eli gets in on how impactful he was in the playoffs and the fact that he took down the Patriots twice. Ben is a slightly worse Rivers, with 2 SBs so he gets in from a career perspective. Ryan might be on par with Rivers, but he does have an SB appearance, MVP and an All Pro selection. So I think he gets in, but not so soon.

Big Ben and 2 Superbowls is in. Or he would be the first ever double SB QB not to go.

The others are messy, and by the time they come round Russ and Kirk and Stafford are probably in people's minds as well to cloud up the thinking. And potentially by that point they are being compared to the 2027 career records of Mahomes, Lamar, Tua, Lawerence, and anyone else who is going along for future considerations.

Ben gets in for sure, Eli gets in for sure, Ryan does not get in for sure, rivers does not get in for sure, Russ most likely does not get in anymore. It’s pretty simple. Now you can say Ryan Is a better qb than both those guys and I would agree but it doesn’t really matter. You can say Eli doesn’t deserve it and I agree but it doesn’t really matter. Cam I think is interesting as a mvp and has the ridiculous running/td stats, but he also does not get in. Also aikman and these other QBs being in doesn’t move the needle for these guys that are better QBs. It’s different eras.

Ben is a lock, Matt Ryan is borderline due to the MVP and Superbowl season, Rivers won't get in. Eli will get in for 2 rings even though Matt Ryan and Rivers were both better QBs, which is why the Hall of Fame is weird sometimes

Ben gets in due to the SB's, even if one was literally in spite of his play.

Eli gets in because he was the most important single player for not just two SB's, but for the entirety of those SB playoff runs.

Rivers might get in because of accumulated stats but I dont think so without the winning when it counts.

Matt Ryan has no chance.

Eli it’s the litmus. He should get in. His career is all around better then Ryan and rivers (I’m a huge rivers guy but Eli had the batter career )

Only Ben can get in, and Eli not without making the hall a joke.

Ben absolutely gets in, no question.

Ben’s almost certainly gonna make it in

Honestly if the QBs from right now don’t step it up it’ll be harder to argue Rivers and Ryan don’t deserve to be in. When the longest tenured QB in the league has only been with his teams for 8 years and the few older QBs that have stuck around are starting to break down in their mid-30s someone like Rivers being consistently very good or great until he was nearly 40 is going to look more impressive.

Like imagine if in 2033 Joe Burrow was still the Bengals QB and was still Pro Bowler.

Ben is a lock.

Eli probably gets in.

Ryan probably doesn’t get in.

Rivers definitely does not get in, which I hate.

I think he is the best QB out of all four, but he doesn’t have any awards except for Pro Bowls and only made it to the AFCCG once and that won’t cut it. The HOF is based on winning, awards, and championships much more than career stats.

rivers has no all pros, no mvp and no super bowl appearances so he's not getting in and shouldn't get in. perfect example of a hall of very good qb

roethlisberger has the two championships so he'll get in

ryan has 1 mvp and 1 super bowl appearance so he's right on the line

It usually comes down to rings. If they've got one, its the 3000 hit club for baseball level.

Lack of ring has kept Ken Anderson out and I absolutely think Rivers is HOF level but some are gonna hold that against him

Ben is a raper and the other two are mid tier. id vote no to all 3

Ben absolutely gets in, I don't think Rivers and Ryan should. They're both in the Hall of Very Good.

I think Greeny said something to the effect of "can you tell the story of the NFL without this player." The HoF is exists tell the story of great football players over the years. Sorry to Charger fans and Falcon fans but you easily can tell the story of that particular era of football without Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers.

At no point in his career has Philip Rivers stood above his peers statistically or award wise. Why do so many people believe he should be a first ballot hall of famer? The HoF is very picky and particular especially when it comes to QBs. His class has too many above him and the new QBs are already surpassing him award wise (statistically as well with time)

I think you ultimately have to be judged against both HOF members and your peers. Ben, Matt Ryan and Rivers all played at a high level for a long time, and they're probably better than some of the players already in the hall, but when you're competing not only with four of the greatest QBs in league history (Brady, Peyton, Rodgers and Brees) but also Mahomes (who is basically a lock already), with guys like Lamar, Burrow and Allen also potentially in the discussion.

They're not the best of their generation and they're not better than the best of the next generation. In fact, it even being up for debate sort of tells me that they shouldn't be in. Maybe Ben, but only because of his two rings.

joe namath is in the hall so...

Ben gets in, Matt Ryan maybe eventually.

I think going forward Dak Prescott will be a good line to measure a HoF qb. If you're better than him you'll have the stats just need longevity.

Big Ben is a first ballot Hall of Famer probably.

2 Super Bowl wins, high on the all time list in a lot of career stats.

rivers does not deserve to get in, but the hall is quickly becoming over-inclusive.

Big Ben is sure fire Bress was never and mvp don’t know why he gets so much praise

Ryan and Rivers will have to wait longer than they should because Eli is getting in ahead of both of them.