NFL

I’ve never quite understood people who use Super Bowl/championship wins as criteria for the HOF in both football and other sports.

What you do is essentially condemn any player who didn’t win a Super Bowl because of a variety of factors that very well might have been out of their control. If a good player is stuck on a really bad team, why hold them off the ballot because “they didn’t win anything”? Football especially is a team sport where there is heavy emphasis on the team aspect.

Take Philip Rivers, I firmly believe he deserves the HOF. Nothing about the numbers he put up says he shouldn’t be. Is it really Rivers’s fault he had Marty Schottenheimer as coach? A guy notorious for being unable to win the big game? Or Mike McCoy? Or Anthony Lynn? Despite what the Patriots did during this time, people should remember that getting to the Super Bowl is hard, let alone winning it.

And that argument cuts both ways I think. Joe Thomas is in the hall of fame? Okay but what did he win? He didn’t play a single down his entire career in the playoffs. But he has a ton of all pros so it’s fine. Okay, so that would mean unless you are literally the best player in the entire country at your position year after year, if you don’t win anything that disqualifies you from the HOF? That’s some pretty backwards logic if you ask me.

Matt Ryan. Absolutely not. With that SB win, probably

Big Ben: Absolutely will with the 2 SB

Rivers: Hall of Very Good. On the fence but lack of accolades keeps him out.

Eli for sure. He’s in for winning against the perfect season Patriots in the Super Bowl. Ben, I’m obviously extremely bias but I don’t know. His off the field stuff will make it unlikely at least on first ballot. Rivers and Ryan aren’t going in. Really good quarterbacks of this era will be judged against Peyton and Brady. Sure it’s unfair but it’s how it is.

Other positions need catching up. Hell Ken Riley just got in. Lorenzo Neal, Dwight Freeney, Reggie b Wayne and Torrie Holt aren’t in yet. All of them just based off memory (pretty sure they aren’t in) plus Willie Anderson should but that’s my bias and he only was eligible this year.

Ryan MIGHT get in, because of the MVP, Ben almost certainly will unless they hold the rape against him (they should), Rivers shouldn't because of lack of accolades or playoff success.

Ben definitely gets in, I don't think it's up for much debate.

I think the HoF will draw a Phillip Rivers/Matt Ryan line.

They could make a compelling argument that a QB to be even considered for the hall they have to make at least one Super Bowl as a starter and if they loose a SB they have to make it to more than one as a starter.

MVP/All-Pro 1 season which is pretty much required unless you have 2 Super Bowls

I think this is probably the line.

Ben and Eli will both get in based on rings and longevity. I know Eli was never a super dominant regular season QB, but he’s A) a Manning B) responsible for two of the wildest SB wins of all time and C) probably has 2 of the 10 greatest plays in that contest.

Any meaningful comparison of QBs would have to standardize their performance to the average player in that year for each year of their career.

I think Ben gets in. He has 2 rings and all the stats needed along with 6 pro bowls. Ryan and rivers are on the fence due to the lack of postseason success. Ryan edges rivers because of the MVP and Super Bowl appearance so I think Ryan will get votes and rivers is just below them.

Follow up question where does Eli manning rank with them? He has the counting statistics along with 2 rings and 2 Super Bowl MVPs with 4 pro bowls. His efficiency wasn’t as good as those 3 and he was a .500 qb on his career. How much weight do the SB MVPs hold because none of the other 3 have them.

Big Ben yes... Ryan and Rivers... not a chance.

It's the "Hall of FAME," not the "Hall of BETTER THAN AVERAGE."

The real question is, does Eli get in??

Big Ben will get in, he has two Super Bowls and a lot of passing stats that you wouldn't expect and he won a lot in his career outside of those two SB runs including a SB loss in 2010.

Eli Manning, Matty Ice, and Rivers are the true edge cases. Out of the three I think Eli Manning gets it and the other two are left out. Eli has the two SB runs but also has beaten Brady twice in the SB. I think Eli also being spectacular in those runs also adds to why voters will let him in despite good but not great regular season stats and records.

Matty Ice and Rivers have the regular season stats but never were consistent playoff performers. I think given how inflated QB stats are these guys are left out on the edge.

Looking through that list, Warren Moon is the only QB in the hall with no championships and no 1st team all pro seasons. He only has 1 more pro bowl than rivers. Both played the same number of seasons. Both had a highest career finish of 3rd in the MVP voting. Moon has 1 2nd team AP I suppose. I feel like if Moon's in Rivers should probably be voted in at some point.

Big Ben was never top 5 in MVP voting in the league. I know the sentiment is that he’ll get in, especially with his two SBs, but never being top 5 in his prime is almost the definition of HoVG

Right or wrong, HOF is swayed by Super Bowl appearances. That’s Ben R’s biggest plus, and a minus for Rivers & Ryan. On the other hand he had an early career “me too” problem. My gut feel is they ignore the problem, focus on the success, and me makes it in. But I don’t think it is a slam dunk.

As far as Rivers? I don’t know if it hurts that he played for 3 teams, but no Super Bowl appearances will hurt. 8 pro bowls and 1 comeback player are pluses. But I think he just misses.

The only eligible multi time Super Bowl Champion QB not in the Hall is Jim Plunkett. Eli is getting in if people like it or not. People consider Ben a lock but he's got the distinction of having the worst performance of a winning QB and one of two multi time winners with no Superbowl MVP(other is Bob Griese).

Roethlisberger, character issues aside, is probably in. It's pretty clear that the NFL doesn't worry about sexual assault, so barring a sea change on that, he'll go first ballot. 2 rings, prolific rookie career, 6 Pro Bowls, AP Rookie of the Year, etc, etc, multiple 500 yard games, near the top of the all time list in yardage. Yeah. He's in.

Matty Ice may have ha a solid career, but doesn't have a Super Bowl so the only mention of him in the HoF will be about the Falcons losing to New England after being up 28-3.

If there's a wing added to the HoF for ultra productive sperm and G-rated trash talk, Phil Rivers is a lock. If there's not, he won't be in either.

Ryan should get in if people actually understand the game of football.

Matt Ryan wasn’t good enough

Big Ben shouldn’t be allowed due to his shady ongoings off the field.

Rivers is like but falls short as well

Rings dont make the QB though for me as its a team game you dont win one without a good team

the only way a guy gets in with 0 Super Bowls is if the break passing records and have Multiple MVPs. Ryan and rivers are HoVG, not HOF.

I think 28-3 and 33-0 keeps Matt Ryan out of the hall. To me those overshadow his one exceptional season.

Rivers is worthy, the Chargers weren’t good enough for him, and they continue to fail an equally talented QB today. If you can have the number 1 offense and defense but go 8-8 and miss the playoffs that’s on the organization.

I think the real debate here is whether Eli’s 2 rings get him in before Ben despite Ben being objectively more successful in all other measures.

Saw the title and came in ready to defend Rivers with my life instantly

You forgetting about Eli Manning

Cam Newton is not a HoF QB.

Big Ben only. Other two are not HOF.

Not that the committee weighs PFR HOF score, but there’s an argument to be made about whether a potential candidate should be better than the average HOF player.

I can’t think of a single Phil Rivers highlight.

And the only game I remember his Chargers beating Colts in the playoffs one time.

He was never a top 3 QB in the NFL in any season.

Stats are great. Chargers fans love him. Sounds like Wall of Fame or Ring of Honor, but no even close to Hall of Fame.

Big Ben is getting in because of the rings and being a Steeler. I don't think the other two get in, but Ryan's case is stronger thanks to the MVP, AP1, Super Bowl appearance, as well as an OROY.

The biggest thing holding Rivers back is West Coast bias. If he'd been playing in a major market, he would have been a first rounder, no question.

Big Ben isnt close. Hes a two time Superbowl champ who had great numbers and was an excelling QB.

Where will the Pro Football Hall of Fame draw the line with QBs?

When the hall stops making money, people will pay to see eli inducted (or the very least travel to watch it)

The real question is how many people will drive 10 hours for it

Ben yes, Ryan and Rivers clear no

HOF is honestly more about what people remember about a player more than anything. Like what is there legacy when people talk about them.

Rodgers will be remembered as having the greatest arm talent of all time. He obviously gets in.

Brees will go down as one of if not the best pure passer of all time. At minimum the most accurate ever that proved to be able to win. He is a lock.

Tom Brady is the GOAT…

Big Ben will be remembered one of the most ultimate winners, who is one of the most naturally talented QBs of all time. I think he easily gets in.

But that then brings us to -

Matt Ryan - I just don’t know what exactly will he be remembered for. I know A LOT of people think of the blown Super Bowl lead when they think of him. And even disregarding the Super Bowl, it’s also just I don’t think he is that memorable of a QB. For perspective even tho he is without a doubt the best and most successful QB in franchise history, I think there are A LOT of fans who still think of Michael Vick when they think of the Atlanta Falcons. So yeah I honestly don’t know if he gets in

Eli Manning - I don’t think he will get in but him beating Brady in 2 Super Bowls honestly does help him a ton. Like if he were to beat 2 other QBs I don’t think he has a shot. But the fact Brady’s legacy is so huge and Eli’s legacy his so closely tied to it. I think it’s possible he gets in but unlikely

Then the most interesting one I think is Russell Wilson. Because his career with the Seahawks was not only VERY successful, but he also carved out a lane that I think would really be remembered by the voters. That being he will probably be considered the ultimate scrambling QB. But now with everything on the Broncos it really has hurt his legacy and honestly boosted Pete Carrols

Ben's going in 2nd or 3rd Ballot. He won't go first cause he's an ass. Eli is not quite a lock but is most likely getting in. If Phil makes it in the Hall is a fucking joke and it's discredited. Phil did nothing big his entire career, no wins, trophies or iconic moments.

Ben yes. Ryan and Rivers no.

Rivers will not sniff the HoF lmao

The fact that Eli Manning will probably get in and Rivers probably won’t is disturbing.

I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion I think there needs to be 2 criteria met, regular season and post season.

Have a "Hall of Very Good" for those that can't meet both criteria.

Do I think Eli Manning is a Hall of Famer? No way. Will he be? Of course.

He meets the post season but the guy never scared a team playing him.

None of those guys you mentioned should get in. There’s a reason why people set Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees into a category of their own. It’s because they are HOFers. Ben, Ryan, and Rivers aren’t in that tier.

Ben is the only of those 3 that get in.

Eli is a sure-fire HOF guy, period. No way he's not getting in with 2 SB MVPs and being top 10 on a few of the all-time passing stat leaderboards.

I feel like Matt Ryan is a good litmus test for future HOF potential for QBs.

Above -> gets in eventually Below/equal -> probability doesn’t get in

Putting Ben with the likes of a dude who never won a Super Bowl is kind of...shit almost insulting.

Dude went to 3 and won 2 Super Bowls.

I think he'd be the only multi Super Bowl winning qb to NOT make it if he didn't?

Big Ben is getting in, not Rivers and Ryan

Just give them participation plaques.

Ben will get in, and should. Rivers might. Ryan, might not. Ryan had his one year that was better than any year Ben and Phil had, but I don’t think he was a better QB than either of them for their careers.

Ben Roethlisberger shouldnt get in though he likely will eventually. The others are a no. For Ben only 5 get in per year and he eligible same year as Adrian Peterson and Gronk who are locks as 1sr ballot and easily over him. Then you have Richard Sherman and Eric Weddle who are HoFs though maybe not 1st ballot. Plus the interesting case of Antonio Brown who on paper is 1st ballot but all the other stuff with him may make him wait. This isn't even considering all the players from prior years.

He probably gets in eventually but he won't be 1st ballot. He isn't even a top 5 QB of his era and all he really has to hang his hat on is two superbowl wins that were more defense than him. His rape allegation will also be factor. AP has his child abuse stuff but he has all time rushing stats which Ben does not.

Some will probably want to argue my top 5 thing: Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees overlap most his career. At the beginning there was still Favre and Warner. At the end there was Mahomes and Jackson. In the middle you besides Ryan, Rivers, and Eli you have Stafford all putting up similar stats. Then you have shorter duration QBs like Newton who for a few years were better. Ben is the epitome of a Hall of Very Good QB who will sneak in because a great team around him and a future HoF coach helped him to two superbow

Eli gets in before Ryan or Rivers. He’s top 10 in most counting stats and has two superbowls MVP’s and has never had anything close to HOFer on his offense. I believe Strahan is the only HOF teammate he’s ever had and Strahan was in the twilight of his career. In 2007 their defense was ranked 17th and 2011 they were ranked 25th. He was an underdog in both super bowls and won them with game winning touchdown drives. You can rail on his not so flashy regular season numbers, but this guy had two halfway decent teams his entire career and he won superbowls with both of them. If you think the guy who blew the biggest superbowl lead ever, with a much better team than Eli has ever had is getting in before him than you’re nuts.

I don’t think Ben, Ryan, or Rivers make it in. Brees only makes it in because his trailblazing the path to 80,000 yards being so much higher than the next person (excluding Brady). Brees makes it in even without the Super Bowl win because his contribution to NFL history with the 80k yards.

Two Super Bowl wins isn’t enough to get you in anymore because Eli is going to miss with the two biggest wins in Super Bowl history so Ben is out. Ryan and Rivers have zero Super Bowl wins, and did not attain any significant regular season or post season records or hit any huge QB milestones or really advance the game at their position so they are also out.

Being completely realistic, Rodgers is the only other guy I see going to HOF because he has 4 MVPs and his TD:INT ratio is so damned insane that he really impacted what we consider a top QB should be like. His ratio is above 4.5 after 18 seasons, the next highest is Mahomes at 3.67 who only has 7 years. The next two seasoned QBs are Russell Wilson with 3.18 with 150 less TDs then Tom Brady at 3.06.

Mahomes is on the right track, but he needs to keep playing for at least another decade at the same level he’s been playing at with the same level of success to really get into the conversation seriously.