craftingwithbits

@[email protected] It saddens me to read this accusation.

Remember when the lab leak was "conspiracy theory" and racist against Asians. Then the funding documents of the nature of the work at Wuhan comes out. Talking about lab leak was misinformation, until the evidence was overwhelming that it was a strong possibility. Isn't it in all of our interest to find out if a lab was responsible so we can fix the problem?

What happens when authorities can just say misinformation, present no evidence and silence dissent?

Why the fear of an idea? I thought this was a leftist server? I genuinely came here to have cool conversations and have been so surprised at the level of penetration that this "anti-vax" fever has gotten here.

Whats the fear? That people won't comply? How about instead of mandates they give us choice and information. Instead of censorship, they persuade us with evidence and transperancy.

I'm prepared for the moment when I come to log onto this server running Free and Open Source Software and my account has been deleted. It's sad we can't freely express ourselves. I don't think I'm being unreasonable, or harassing, or trolling and I'm certainly not engaging in personal attacks.

whyam I not allowed to question the public health policy that vaccines are the ONLY way out of this. It seems so obvious to me that that is false. There are early treatments that can be used ALONGSIDE vaccines.

I understand that vaccines may lessen severity of symptoms, but it is well doumented that they don't stop the spread or infection.

I think the vaccines are a technical marvel, we are biologically programming our cells to produce spike protein to stimulate an immune response against the virus. But why not early treatment as well?

I hope you take me at my word that I am not maliciously spreading misinformation, but genuinely inquiring and trying to reason through this crazy situation we are all in.

I wish instead of hostile responses a good faith engagement of ideas could be had. It's possible I'm wrong. It's also possible you are. How can we ever figure that out if we use the blunt instrument of censorship/banning?

I hope you don't ban me, but I'm not going to self censor. I hope you read the full thread and see that at no point did I promote Ivermectin in preference of vaccines, nor vaccines in preference of ivermection.

I figure we are all adults and can make up our individual minds and take responsibility for our own actions and should treat each other with mutual respect. I don't understand all the banning...

You’re a crank and should be banned

Interesting mantra.

Anyway, I'd say this is a complex situation and there is some validity in your point of view and mine as well. I think it was a mistake to censor, smear early treatment and fire people even if they had acquired immunity. Seems cruel to me.

I also think it is cruel to deny people early treatment due to gov edict instead of allowing doctors to treat their patients how they see fit.

I think the policy of turning people away from the hospital until symptoms worsened instead of using early treatments was a massive mistake.

I don't pretend to have absolute infallible knowledge and wouldn't advocate for censorship as the princple of free speech is precisely tested during strong disagreement.

are trying to insulate yourself from criticism with grandiose claims of rights to free speech and not being dehumanized

I personally would advise you not be so casually contemptous of those principles. I'm not trying to insulate myself from criticism. Only one of us has expressed a desire that the other be censored.

bad faith interpretation

I don't think it's constructive to assume the motives of others

you erroneously concluded it shouldn’t be administered,

That's a nice strawman you got there

*and *made an incorrect bad faith interpretation about “claims” associated with the promises of the vaccine that aren’t attributed to real people or based on an honest accounting of cause and effect of which forces drove the pandemic.

President, head of CDC, head of NIAID didn't say on tv it would prevent infection? Was that memory holed already?

You’re a crank and you should be banned.

You trying to build a safe space where no one disagrees?

I'm speaking sincerely and not in bad faith. I'm concerend by the amount of power gov is trying to get via mandates and the transfer of wealth that is happening due to shutdowns.

It's an honest diagreement, but if you want to assume I have negative motives, nothing I can do about that.

I personally don't want anyone censored and think humanity thrieves when we can have difficult conversations out in the open.

You’re an antivax crank.

It's just a difference of opinion, calm down internet friend. Let's not dehumanize one another over an opinion regarding a pharma product. I'm not advocating for anyone to be restricted from getting the vax if they want it. I'm just pointing out it doesn't stop spread or infection and early treatment exists.

The website you cite with 75 studies does not recommend ivermectin as a replacement for vaccines.

That wasn't the point. The point is that there are studies showing the IVM is effective a preventing and treating Covid infection.

The news article you cite, contrary to your claims, does not claim a 4th booster is “ineffective.”

Fair point, they do say less effective.

“The vaccines, which were more effective against previous variants, offer less protection versus omicron."

When you have a product with garanteed sales backwed by gov enforce mandates, this tends to happen. I sincerely wish the vaccines would have worked at preventing infection and spread, but they have failed. Even so, the tax money will stay in those bank accounts vs fund improvements in the respective societies.

Here is latest observational study showing efficacy of Ivermectin: https://www.cureus.com/articles/82162-ivermectin-prophylaxis-used-for-covid-19-a-citywide-prospective-observational-study-of-223128-subjects-using-propensity-score-matching

Not enough? Here are 75 other studies: https://ivmmeta.com/

The data is out there. It's not "magical thinking" induced by fear. If anything, I'd say people considering a 4th or 5th booster are engaging in fear induced reasoning, in my opinion, literally being coerced by the state to comply or lose their ability to provide for themselves and their family.

New study from Isreal acknowledges 4th booster is ineffective at preventing infection from omicron: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/israel-study-4th-vaccine-shows-limited-results-omicron-82312196

So now the vaccine narrative is shifting from "it will stop the pandemic" to "its llike a flu shot".

How can anyone justify denying early treatment works, reducing access to the early treatments in favor of mandating a product that does not work as promised?

We should make everything available and let patient/doctor decided, not a one-size fits all mandate and censorship of any questioning of authorities (who have been dramatically wrong over and over).

This is true. I was incorrect. I guess my point is that it's the first time humans are doing it to humans.

You may ask, but I don't disclose personal medical information as a rule. Why do you ask?

Disease is scary. Pandemics are scary. I understand the fear. But corporate media is cranking it up, from president Biden talking about a winter of death, to the death counters... slowly alot of lies are being uncovered... counting hospitalized WITH covid vs FROM covid, Pfizer ceo admitting vax don't work (to sell the new one of course)

If you listen to Hitler's rhetoric that whipped up the Germans to dehumanize their Jewish neighbors, it had a lot to do with disease, and Goebbels talks alot about using fear to control a population. It's why Mass formation Psychoses is being talked about now

the pro-vax / anti-vax dichotomy is just the ruling elite engineering classic divide and conquer, manipulating us at any opportunity to attack each other so we don't see the massive transfer of wealth into the pockets of transnational corporations

I mean just look at this thread. A comment telling me to cough myself to death and calling me a rat (Echoes of Hitler's anti-jew rhetoric) for not trusting massive corporations that have been fined BILLIONS for lying about their products to us in the past has several up votes. That level of dehumanization/rage/hatred is the goal of a massive propaganda machine pointed at us right now.

So I disagree that society has agreed to this. This is a manufactured perception that the majority blindly trust the Corporate/Gov alliance. It is not real. The evidence is in that they have to censor. Because the truth can shatter the illusion they are constructing.

They censor doctors, congressional testimony, saying only they ARE Truth and Science and questioning them is not allowed. They know they are the minority which is why they seed that censorious desire in those who are easily manipulated. "Don't let them talk! Their words are dangerous and harmful! Anti-vaxxer! Misinformation!"

They amplify the fear, reminding us at every turn that the threat is in the air we breath and they are using it to take away our rights and turn us against one another.

That's why I'm marching on 1/23

My point is this is the first time we are using mRNA to program our cells to produce spike. Previous vaccines took the entire virus either attenuated or dead to stimulate the immune response.

This is the first time we are using an mRNA snippet to program our cells to make a specific protein.

So no, factually you are incorrect. This is not "exactly" how viruses work.

Risk management aside, it's an amazing technology. We are biologically programming human cells.

imagine being so ignorant you think that a vaccine is a 100% catch all.

I agree. That was very ignorant of the director of the CDC and US Pres Biden to say it prevents infection to justify the initial push for mandates.