naught

Just thinking of all the value for the shareholders makes me shudder with ecstasy 😍

First, I genuinely don't mean to condescend, and I don't think I've called you any pet names or anything like that. Apologies if I have. It's hard to read a charitable tone if we're disagreeing, so I get that.

I'd wager that if you say "slavery" to almost literally any westerner (or at least American), you are evoking chattel slavery. Like that in America before its civil war. Without clarifying what you mean, I don't think it's very fair to put the onus on others. Here's a definition of slavery from the dictionary:

The condition in which one person is owned as property by another and is under the owner's control, especially in involuntary servitude.

Most people are not owned as property in any traditional sense, nor are they (all) enduring involuntary servitude. You can argue that because you need a job to survive, you're forced to work. That if you cannot easily escape your conditions, then you're trapped. This isn't the traditional definition of slavery, which is why I typically expect to see "wage slavery" or something akin to that. It's not exactly an appeal to ad populum if we're debating the definitions of words or semantics, which are only determined by a mutual acceptance and understanding.

Can you clarify whether you think a middle class American making $50,000 a year is a slave? Are the poor in nations with better welfare systems also slaves? I'm earnestly asking because I want to understand what you consider "modern" slavery and what the prerequisites are for being a "modern abolitionist."

"Work camp" evokes Russian gulags, North Korean work camps, or even Nazi death camps. When you're not referring to a literal work camp, it's hard to decipher that you mean the conditions created by capitalism without you saying so. I literally thought you meant that Israel was a gigantic work camp filled to the brim with unsuspecting Jews who were concentrated there by a global conspiracy which includes Zionists. Which, based on what I now know you mean, is more or less true, but I certainly wouldn't describe it like that if I wanted the average internet idiot to understand.

Thanks for the links about the election, I'll check them out.

it means "probably" 🤗

This would've scared the shit out of me as a kid

they are NOT

and they are the best

Ignoring the condescension, you're using words and phrases like "work camp," "eugenics," and "slavery." I understand that slavery looks different at different times and places, but these people are no more enslaved than the majority of the current world is. It's not useful to use this language if you're not describing the typical definition, particularly if you aren't going to define the words which you are using differently. If you want to make the case that the world is effectively enslaved by monied interests and oligarchs, then I agree with you. There is a spectrum of slavery, though, and I typically reserve that word for those being bought and sold and shuttled around to build stadiums in Dubai or sex slavery.

If I told you in argument that the United States was a slave state akin to N.K., you would be right to doubt me unless I expanded that capitalism creates conditions which oppress the underclass to the degree that they are effectively enslaved, which is a different kind of oppression than N.K., but certainly a valid point! You won't get shot running over the border (if you're white, that is).

If we had established a baseline for what words you were using and why, then I doubt we'd have had much to disagree about. Though, I can't say I've seen any evidence that Trump didn't win the election mostly fair and square (if you discount voter suppression and gerrymandering and the like, that is). You also sourced a reddit thread which led to an article whose relevance I still can't quite pinpoint not least of which because it's paywalled.

Thanks for your perspective, genuinely.

The existence of a lower class without much social, or even physical mobility does not establish that "most" are trapped. They're no more trapped in a "work camp" than a poor American. I agree that modern capitalism is wage slavery and things are bleak for many. The poor and vulnerable are always the ones who suffer most.

e: Human trafficking happens everywhere, too. Just because some are exploited horribly doesn't mean that applies to most in Israel.

It also doesn't follow that Jews are trapped in Israel just because eugenicists and antisemites supported its creation or Jewish exodus. That's unsurprising. Zionists exist too and staunchly believe in their right and duty to live there. Many Jews and other religious travel there freely, albeit, more freely before the latest escalations in violence.

I think Palestinians are more trapped than anyone else. I consider this a lot, but without making unsourced claims or exaggerated rhetoric

I can't really decipher your sources. Your claims about Israel are huge, and without evidence. There is a well documented history (and present) of Israel, but your version isn't it.

People can leave Israel. I know plenty who have. A desert might've worked as a fence before vehicles were invented, especially flying ones.

These points are all either baseless conspiracy or extreme exaggeration, perhaps to make a point, but that's not immediately clear to me.

“I’m asking the people of Texas, do some serious praying,” Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick said. “On-your-knees kind of praying that we find these young girls.”

Or stand the fuck up and do something about it

He's really gonna do it this time! Honest!

Why do people move there, then? They have a democracy. I think it's more like living in the US where we elect our fascists. You don't see South Koreans clamoring to support NK nor immigrating there.

Plenty of Israelis do not support the war and want a quick resolution. Then there are the fascists and fanatics that have been displacing Palestinians and settling territory for years prior. Complex for sure, but a concentration camp it is not.

McFayg?