this post was submitted on 16 Apr 2024
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Yep. That was the biggest reason I voted for him.
As they say down south, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice.. You can't get fooled again! (Because I'll be voting NDP.)
NDP is a big part of why you didn't get electoral reform. Probably one of the key influences in killing it.
We didn't get electoral reform because the Liberals torpedoed their own efforts. They went out of their way to find the most self serving electoral method possible.
If they wanted to do it right, look to countries who have successfully implemented. Follow NZ's process, for example: A two part referendum, Q1: Keep FPTP or switch. Q2: Which new system, with several options.
This is, again, a bad take. The Liberal electoral method was party policy for years and years by 2015. They didn't go out of their way to find it, Liberals from a cross Canada went to local policy workshops, voted, and raised their choice of electoral reform method at plenary / policy convention. They had also rejected a referendum, given they had just won a majority mandate with ER on their platform. But the reforms the LPC wanted were killed by an NDP/CPC coalition in committee.
I don't care if they asked a ouija board. They came up with the wrong answer that didn't serve Canadians in a fair and equitable manner, it served themselves. That's the bottom line.
If you really think the Liberals are truly interested in electoral reform, look no further than the vote results of Motion M-86. Only 25% of Liberal and 3% of Conservative MPs voted in support of the motion.
Ouija board? Fellow, listen, you don't like STV, fine, whatever, but that policy was arrived at through the democratic process and the party was right not to abandon the grassroots on it.
Nobody except the LPC wanted STV. That's not grassroots. STV didn't even fall within the committee's stated purview.
I'd recommend you go read the LPCs Supplemental Report to the Special Committee: https://www.ourcommons.ca/documentviewer/en/42-1/ERRE/report-3/page-435
It's basically a bunch of FUD saying Canadians are too dumb to understand any sort of PR, and we should just put it off because there was disagreement. But the fact is that there is consensus that FPTP is not providing fair elections. The liberals just wanted to manufacture any excuse to not change the status quo. The recent vote on motion M-86 with only 25% of Liberal MPs supports that.
You don't know what your talking about, not even what the term grassroots means. I'll take no lessons thanks.
Sure bud, enjoy your willful ignorance.
Yea, no, I'm not ignorant I'm just not falling in for meme thought. Liberals support STV because party members got together during policy convention time, which is semi annual, usually in hyper local groups of 40-50, across the country in small halls and hotel convention rooms, to debate and vote on policy to send to provincial and then national policy convention until all Liberal party members had a free vote on it, choosing STV. The fact you don't recognize Liberal support for STV as grassroots tells me you aren't serious in the least in your understanding of what happened.
You bought the hive-mind hot take and took it as gospel, like many others, and find it easier to close your ears and repeat that take than to actually consider what happened. You're in popular company I guess, but still wrong.
I don't recognize a single party's unilateral decision as a grassroots movement of the whole. I have no idea regarding the precise mechanism by which the Liberals choose the voting system best suited to their own needs, and frankly, I'm not sure how it's relevant to our conversation.
Other systems are better suited to a majority of Canadians and have support that crosses party boundaries. It's a minority, but a good number of Liberal voters support MMP, for example.
You aren't sure why it's relevant for a party to respect their grass roots supporters and the policy they decided on? You aren't sure why that would be relevant in a discussion that I evolves the precise mechanism by which party policy becomes the law of a nation? Come on.
Why would the LPC adopt the policy position (MMP) of the smallest party in the House of Commons over the known, official, grass roots, twice democratically affirmed over ten years position of their own membership? It doesn't make sense, never did, wasn't going to happen.
Way to just put words in my mouth which I haven't even come close to suggesting. Such good faith behavior. If you don't understand what I've written, or I haven't communicated well, you can simply ask for clarification.
I'm saying it's irrelevant if the effective decision to torpedo their party's own promise was decided upon by collectively, by a conference of their MPs, or dictated by Trudeau himself.
They wouldn't, because it hurts them at the polls. They don't care about doing the right thing for Canadians, just that they don't lose seats to the NDP, even if that comes at the cost of losing an election to the conservatives. The main thing keeping them in power isn't good policy, it's scare tactics of a Conservative majority combined with FPTP.
Once again, read their comments on the ER report if you want to know what they truly think of their own voters. They spent pages whining about methodology which wasn't thoroughly explained because its already widely accepted. Pure FUD.
Edit: It just occurred to me that perhaps were not seeing eye to eye because of how this conversation started: "Trudeau lied."
I just wanted to clarify that you understand that when most people say that, they're aware that the policy platform that a party head runs on isn't solely their own personal discretion. Is your argument that Trudeau didn't lie because it was a collective decision? Because that would clarify why you care so much about this whole grassroots distinction.