this post was submitted on 13 Feb 2025
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Linux

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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I'm not surprised by this.

The general attitude around R4L is that it's largely unneeded and for every 1 person actively working against the project, there are 10 saying either "waiting and seeing if it works is the right decision" or "if rust is so good they should prove it."

So as a R4L developer you're expected by the community to fight an uphill battle with basically no support on your side.

We will likely keep having developers on that project continue to burn out and leave until the entire thing collapses unless the decision is made ahead of time to cancel the project.

Every time I read any news about Rust for Linux I leave disappointed by the entire kernel community.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (2 children)

I am with you on that last line. However, I remain more hopeful.

As long as Linus keeps merging code, Rust will eventually win. And by win I just mean that it will overcome the haters sufficiently to render their resistance futile.

There is only so much support infrastructure needed before large chunks of Rust can be committed ( at least on the driver side ). We are not so far away from that. Once real code starts to appear the “show me” will drive adoption elsewhere.

Take this case, it all started over a bit of code. The subsystem maintainer refuses to take it. But it does not require any changes to existing code. It just has to be merged.

Linus can take it directly. If he does that, the Rust folks can start to use it. The sub-system maintainer will lose in the end.

At some point, the battle will be lost by those trying to block Rust.

It all depends on Linus. We will see.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Take this case, it all started over a bit of code. The subsystem maintainer refuses to take it. But it does not require any changes to existing code. It just has to be merged. Linus can take it directly. If he does that, the Rust folks can start to use it. The sub-system maintainer will lose in the end. At some point, the battle will be lost by those trying to block Rust. It all depends on Linus. We will see.

Linus hasn't been merging the necessary code, by virtue of supporting a maintainer who was very obviously trying to sabotage R4L; if Linus was going to stand up for R4L, this would have been the time.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 21 hours ago

Sima (Simona Vetter) quotes "Being toxic on the right side of an argument is still toxic, [...]" while being toxic

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Today, it is practically impossible to survive being a significant Linux maintainer or cross-subsystem contributor if you’re not employed to do it by a corporation. An interviewer to the Linux dev that's mentioned in the article: "So what did you do next to try to convince the Linux kernel devs of the need for more focus on end-users?"

I appears as if Linux is a nest that is not built with a consistent set of user-centric principles. Instead, it seems that each part of the nest is built with a specific corporation or project in mind.

Assuming I'm right that Linux is built with project-based thinking and not product-based thinking, I do wonder what a user-centric Linux or another user-centric FLOSS OS would be like, an OS that is so smoothly built that users come to think of it not as an OS for tech-savvy people, but an obvious alternative that you install immediately after getting a computer.

If Linux is indeed built with project-based thinking, then I wonder why that is. The uncharitable explanation is that someone doesn't want Linux to have a MacOS-like smooth and gorgeous experience. If you don't think MacOS is smooth and gorgeous, I'll address that.

I know some people have suffered immensely with Apple products not only because Apple builds devices that can't be repaired, but because of things simply not working. However, there are many people who love Apple. That's the kind of passionate advocacy that I would love to see in Linux, and not just around freedom and value-based judgements. I want Linux to be thought of as the least-friction tool for professional or recreational use. I want people to think of Linux as gorgeous and usable.

Of course, we can apply Hanlon's razor to this situation ("Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by [ignorance or lack of skill or practice]."). Managing a product is difficult. Managing a community is difficult. When the nest's design is not built by a team constantly seeking to care about users, but instead by a bunch of users pecking into the nest until their corner is shaped the way they want, it's not surprising to see a lack of user-centricity.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago (13 children)

Don't desktop environments e.g., GNOME, KDE, fit the bill here? Sure they have their problems, but they are IMO about as polished as macOS or Windows.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 21 hours ago

more so. windows is horrible and macos is distinctly average, it's only selling point is their service/device integration which is the best

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