Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (4 children)

The whole war was about Ukraine NATO membership.

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[+] [email protected] -28 points 6 days ago

This guy is such a populist scammer.

[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This guy has balls the size of western Europe.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Actions speak louder than words, and I believe Zelenskyy would. Great example of leadership.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (6 children)

Something like yesterday or so General Secretary of NATO said membership for Ukraine was never proposed. So it's just empty posturing on the side of Zelensky.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 week ago

The US will dispose of him well before that ever happens. He has outlived his usefulness to US empire.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Completely meaningless given that NATO requires unanimous agreement by all the existing members. Everybody knows that this will never happen, so basically what he's saying is that he'll cling on to power.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

so basically what he’s saying is that he’ll cling on to power.

I find this to be a disingenuous framing. He clearly made that comment in service to the greater good of Ukraine, and I don't know how being the leader of a nation facing imperial domination and constant war and death is something anyone would want to 'cling' to other than out of a sense of duty to the people he is representing.

[–] humanspiral 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The more important part of his statement is "for peace".

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

He had plenty of opportunities to achieve piece starting with implementing Minsk agreements before the war started, signing the agreement in Istanbul two weeks into the war, and numerous other opportunities after. Each time he rejected peace and continued facilitating the destruction of Ukraine.

[–] humanspiral -1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

just pointing out that NATO is not going to happen. Stepping down offer is mainly for peace by someone else.

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[–] Rentlar -4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If this really will never happen, Putin should promise the same, and see what happens. :)

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago

That ship has sailed: Putin tried to get Russia into NATO decades ago.

[+] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

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[+] [email protected] -26 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Nato membership for Ukraine is a no go for Russia, whose approval is actually needed to end the war. Also neither the US or most of European countries keen on having Ukraine in EU, especially when the war is still going on. Zelensky is just fucking with everybody here and insulting everybody's intelligence. He is not ready to step down, he is holding on for his dear life.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Russia has no say on NATO membership they can grind their teeth and whine like a baby as much as they want.

It is assumed putini will instruct dumpy to block it anyway and they can't be members until the war is over.

Everything you see in regards to Ukraine for the next few months will be about setting up negotiations zelensky stepping down is part of that.
Zelensky has been president for nearly 5 years most of that while at war, I don't blame him in wanting to step down.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Russia has no say on NATO membership they can grind their teeth and whine like a baby as much as they want.

No, if Kiev or the EU leaders insists on Ukraine getting into Nato, then Russia will just keep the war going and end Ukraine as a state if they have to. They of course don't want that burden, but they are very ready and capable of doing that. That is their veto regarding Ukrainian nato membership.

It's even easier now that US is pulling out. Why would the Russians ever give concessions like that to Ukraine now? Is EU going to sanction Russia even more? Give Ukraine more of the ever more anemic amounts of weapons?

Plus every European country knows that taking Ukraine into Nato while the war is going on is like vote if they want to escalate this thing over Ukraine into a hot war against Russia that will go nuclear. Ukrainians themselves of course want that outcome. For them it would be just more bodies dying with them and for them, since they can't seem to accept anything else than their vision on total victory. These Zelensky's idiotic words just confirm that even more. That is also why unless a miracle happens and despite the talk form Ukraine and EU leaders Ukraine is never getting into Nato. That's just a fact. Ukraine lost, get over it. Than fuck "the orange man" and his team has some sense in this regard.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 6 days ago

See my note on joining I noted the war had to be over.

As I also said this is all about negotiation stances no, what one side says vs the other in the run up to any deal.

A deal which is unlikely to be talked about seriously until after the summer when both sides can go on the offensive so they can be in a stronger position come winter and negotiations.

[+] humanspiral -36 points 1 week ago

Very useful of him. Ukraine needs leadership that can make peace with Russia, and still keep Kherson, Odessa, or leave up to referendums where they go. Zelensky wouldn't win election anyway. War was obviously big mistake, and looking to US/west for "protection" or terrorism support is just too high of a price to pay.

Zelensky can't be part of future of Ukraine, but it is very helpful for him to step down. Focus should be on trade instead of war.

[+] [email protected] -48 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Zelensky should have inquired about NATO guarantees before sending half his country into the meat grinder. The only guarantee NATO gives is a knife in the back. Ask the Kurds about it.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Zelensky should have inquired about NATO guarantees before sending half his country into the meat grinder.

So, don’t defend your home from a foreign invader unless you’re allowed into NATO? This doesn’t make any sense.

[+] [email protected] 20 points 1 week ago (1 children)

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[+] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Provide an example of a "Russian bot" in this thread, keen observer. State solid reasons why they are a bot, and why their comments are "blind propaganda against Ukraine".

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (6 children)

I can't prove any user are bots, though that is my opinion because I can't comprehend any other reason for their behaviour. And the blind propaganda is all the messages framing Zelensky as the cause of Ukraine's destruction while willfully ignoring Russia's huge involvement, or comments trying to imply he is hated by most Ukrainians (despite his approval rating being well over 50%).

To be clear, being critical of Zelensky is not propaganda, but willfully ignoring data and historical events for the sole benefit of Russia is.

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[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Ukraine is now destroyed, they are not in NATO. And they have a massive debt to America.

This makes a lot of sense 🤠👍

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[–] humanspiral 8 points 1 week ago

NATO (Stoltenberg) proudly rejected Putin's offer to avoid the war by refusing to ever admit Ukraine. Was evil war from the start, and was never intended to end well for Ukraine.

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