Ah yes, for the upcoming Ministry of Love.
this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2025
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Correction. The worst surveillance law in the EU so far
The eventual outcome of this sort of thing is more widespread use of steganographic data storage schemes. We already have plenty, such as ones that make your data look like unused LTS blocks of garbage and code blocks with multiple hidden partitions, so that you can open one block showing pedestrian data and the court unable to prove there are other hidden blocks.
These are technologies that already exist for those people who are really interested preserving their renegade data.
But if I own a business and I don't want my rivals reading my accounting, and open crypto is illegal, I may go stegan whether or not I have secret slush funds.
France is a police state in which citizens are all suspects. Cryptography was illegal until 1996 outside of government/military use and it's one of the worst countries for any hobbyist who needs to use radio frequencies, fly stuff around or even mere street photography. This law will make it easier for the government to crackdown on anyone using encrypted messaging as a pretext to arrest them or put them under surveillance.
Note that the current interior minister and his predecessor both are vile fascist scum.
TSA officers steal from passengers
This may seem unrelated but it gives a real life physical example on exactly why backdoors shouldn't exist.
😂 a crosspost from privacy cross posted from Europa
"Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say"
Snowden
It is not different and both are done. If you've met people of that worldview (thieves, relatives of bureaucrats, bureaucrats themselves), they really have nothing to say directly, they talk in subtle (they think) hints and subtle (they think) threats.
And the things that are perfectly okay today might be the things you want to hide tomorrow. Abortions and pregnancies, thoughts about labor rights or climate, sexual orientation, ...
As an American, I can vouch for this.
I expect many people might read this and think "yep, fair enough, I have nothing to hide and nothing to say" and still not understand why either privacy or free speech are valuable.
The government is not your friend, we are ruled by power tripping authoritarian rulers. They are using security and defense as a pretext to abolish your rights. You can solve the narcotraffic problem by simply legalizing drugs, they are going after encryption for something else, they want to control everything and everyone.
The only thing that can stop a bad guy with access to my private phone data is a good guy with access to my private phone data. /s
They only thing that can stop a bad guy with surveillance fetish is the same bad bad guy with suddenly found exhibitionism fetish. OK, that's not new, see "Enemy of the state" movie.
Fuck me, that’s good
I’m stealing that
In the same vein, with my family I've been using the analogy of "Imagine that all law enforcement had a key to your home, and they could enter at any time and look through your things, but you wouldn't even know it if they did, or if they took photos or recorded videos of your place to take with them. Their argument is that the only way to keep you and your stuff safe from the bad guys is for the good guys to have access. But because the good guys now have access, it's also easier for the bad guys to get in, because now there's all these extra keys to your home out there, which might fall into the hands of the bad guys."
Not a perfect analogy, but it seems to make them consider the issue from a more personal angle. And for those that argue, "Well, I don't have anything to hide.", I usually counter with "Then why do you close your curtains/blinds when you change your clothes or get out of the shower?" With my dad who grew up during the World War II, it also helped to mention that a law like this, once on the books, will not be easy to overturn, and while he might be fine with our current regime having access to all his data, that might not be the case with future authorities.
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Yeah. Also we don't have good guys either, but, that sounds nice.
It feels like the UK and France are in a competition to see who can steamroller their peoples' rights the fastest.
Although not in the same way, the US is leading the charge on that front.
Isn’t Sweden trying something stupid too?
Yup, they are trying to put a backdoor into signal, even though their military advised against it.
France always tries to copy the US with a 10y delay so.. Yeah 🤷
Well, they gotta fight about something...
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Signal, Tuta, Proton. And that Apple bullshit.
This push to know everything about everyone is outrageous, expected, and depressing.
I don't even really want to ask, but... what happened with Tuta? I know what happened with the other 3.
Tuta would also be required to implement a backdoor in their encryption if this law passes. In this post they've stated they will refuse to do so, because it's not possible.
Almost seems like they're afraid of us or something
Luigi wasn’t talking with anyone. None of this would’ve helped them with him.
I think you’re falling into the trap of making a good faith argument when the people pushing to destroy encryption are not.
A reminder that the people voting for these laws do not understand technology. They don't get it. Yes, this law sucks, but even if it passes, I'd be really surprised if it was actually enforceable.
The law is enforceable. If the options you're given is "put a backdoor in your product or stop operating in the country", it'll happen. And even if you reply "then I'll go away", laws like this, stupid, dangerous, breaking everything, will keep popping in one country after another until it's too late.
It not making sense have no bearing on whether it can be enforced or not. And the mere existence of the law may be enough to later put you in hot water if you have some de-facto illegal software on your phone or computer, for example. It would not be automatic everywhere, but another tool to just legally have something against most people.
It could be enforced for the majority of people just by blocking the download of non-backdoored software from well known sources. And then for the relatively few tech-literate types who still obtain and use E2EE messaging software, the government will have a ready way to prosecute you whenever you do anything inconvenient, or look like you might do something. So it can be a serious problem even if it can't technically be enforced for everyone.
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Its funny, I'm watching this show called Prime Target and basically the NSA is trying to prevent people from figuring out some sort of mathematical equation that would instantly break all encryption and talking about how it would be the end of the world as we know it.
Meanwhile the EU is forcing everyone to put in an express lane IRL.
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If this is passed, would this only apply to people in France? Like Signal and WhatsApp, etc, could they make a different version of the app / backend that's unencrypted just for them? Is that even possible? I can't imagine Signal adding a backdoor for everyone in the world.
Or would they just outright pull their software / apps from being used in France? But then what's stopping someone in France from sideloading the app and using a VPN?
Signal has already threatened to pull out of both Australia and the UK when they were talking about passing similar laws.
This is yet another way tying accounts to phone numbers can come back to bite you! I guess pulling out means denying registration from the country's numbers as well? So that would mean either a constant additional expense (which might be significant for poor people), or constantly risk getting the account deleted if you tied it to one-time rental.
But then what’s stopping someone in France from sideloading the app and using a VPN?
The need for a phone number and SMS verification to create an account. Signal should do something about that.
There are ways around that, but the goal isn't to stop everyone from using E2EE; it's to make E2EE non-mainstream.
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