I often wonder how the emissions generated by producing and shipping a new electric vehicle compare to just keeping your old ICE vehicle until it rusts to pieces. Like how long does it take to break even from that?
this post was submitted on 22 May 2025
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Particulates are bad, sure, but they're not what's causing climate collapse.
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Even if every car on the road was electric, the world will still become an ash pile in 50 years.
It's more blaming the people for the problems of the rich, who will never be seriously regulated. It's easier to blame all of us.
I'm not disagreeing with the post, but mass transit is completely non-existent where I live. We have so far to go.
Sure, some places basically require personal transport. Some of it because it is really rural, some of it because it is build to require cars (which is something that can be changed, although it takes time). The problem with cars being the default for everything in everyones mind is just, that possible alternatives aren't even considered and thus even more car requirements are locked in for decades to come.
You can't get rid of cars, not everywhere and in many places not right now. But you have to start and look for alternative ways to manage things so you can reduce the need over time.
Don't know where you live, but to put this into perspective: it's the same situation here and I live in The Netherlands (outside of the major cities). Even in a rich, flat country, the size of a post stamp, we cannot make mass transit work outside of larger cities. I agree that we need mass transit, but it's only one solution for the mobility puzzle. Cars also fit in there as a puzzle piece, especially in areas where the population density is lower.
So from my perspective, no, cars aren't just for the rich.
I also live in the Netherlands and live in a commuter town of 80k inhabitants. There are a lot of bus routes in this town but they are all designed for commuters going to Amsterdam or for people going to the town center. If I want to visit a friend on the other side of town by bus I have to take multiple buses and waste a lot of time on waiting. I usually take the bike when I visit them since that’s faster than going by bus. But if I have to bring lots of things or it’s raining heavily or I know that I’m going home after midnight I take the car, since public transportation is just not a good option to take. Or if I want to visit another town that isn’t on route to Amsterdam it takes me twice as long to get there by bus compared to taking the car. Majority of homes in this town have a car since public transportation or the bike doesn’t satisfy every transportation need they have. And I rather want all these cars to be electric since that is conducive for the air quality.
It’s just not cost effective for a town this size to have dedicated bus routes that connect every corner of town to each other. And it’s even worse for smaller towns.
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well yeah but that’s just because modern western urban planning is kind of absolute shit, it isn’t from some sort of hard limit of means.
china has such extensive public transport that it has become a popular political position to advocate building less high speed rails and shit on both sides of their political aisle.
Cars also fit in there as a puzzle piece, especially in areas where the population density is lower.
When there's 1 farm per 5 km maybe. In 1920, you could get from Savanah to Boston just by taking trains and streetcars; every neighborhood was served by atleast a tram.
The USSR found it worthwhile to build rail lines to remote settlements, without stops, a few times a day a guy would just drive a 2 train locomotive and stop if he saw anybody.
In some rural parts of Japan, you have lines it's just 1 railroad, and every 20 miles is an unmanned station where it splits into 2 for the trains to pass, for like 10 stations. So you have 200 miles worth of suburbs being served by 40-50 workers running 20 3 car trains, that arrive every 30 minutes or so. The unmanned stations tend to have tons of bikes, they probably have buses too.
Average cost of owning a car per day is 20USD or so. A single railroad line that allows just 1000 people to not pay for a car does not cost 20,000 USD a day to operate. This is not including the cost of road building and maintenance. But even if it did, cheap transit is a public good; transit isn't supposed to be revenue neutral. Roads aren't revenue neutral.
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absolutely. the debate when we were kids, and some, many in the city wanted light rail, which was ultimately voted down. my buddy who lived out in the sticks argued, it wouldn't benefit him way out there. I should have pointed out he already benefits from the sewer and water infrastructure extended to far out communities like his. should have asked him to justify why the city supports him living out there.
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Always important to remember in this debate: electrification of transport is not just about carbon and climate. It's about public health, not to mention public sanity.
The filthy noisy combustion engine was never compatible with dense cities, which is where most people live these days. Anyone who has been to one of the few places in the world where urban transport has been completely electrified will testify to the difference it makes to be free of the internal combustion engine. It's night and day.
Let's not lose sight of the wood for the trees.
Motorway noise won't be reduced by electrification:
Graph:
Car noise sources, ICE drivetrain with a notchy transmission.
The little table about cars and trucks compares the crossover speeds above which tyre noise surpasses drivetrain noise.
Meaning: The constant traffic roar in the suburbs will continue, because at dual carriageway speed, eliminating drivetrain noise has minuscule effect on total noise.
Urban planning won't be improved:
Heavy metal pollution will be reduced:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1352231012006942
As, Hg and Se exhaust emissions were dominated by fuel combustion while Cd, Cr, Cu, Ni, Pb, and Zn exhaust emissions were dominated by lubricant oil combustion.
Microplastic pollution will increase:
Motorway noise won’t be reduced by electrification.
They will in slow speed zones. Motorcycles are the worst offenders
Urban planning won’t be improved.
Surely, but the image you show depict 2 entirely different situations. Trying to compare them is dumb. It also has serious implications.
Microplastic pollution will increase.
Sure. That's something, but not the only source of pollution.
I'm failing to see how the first image is relevant. Isnt that comparing cars and trucks, not electric and ICE?
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The little table about cars and trucks compares the crossover speed above which tyre noise surpasses drivetrain noise.
Graph:
Car noise sources, ICE drivetrain with a notchy transmission.
Meaning:
The constant traffic roar in the suburbs will continue, because at dual carriageway speed, eliminating drivetrain noise has minuscule effect on total noise.
Thank you!
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Controversial take (for this community): Electric personal vehicles were the catalyst for the electrification of commercial vehicles. So while it doesn't address the problem of car-centric infrastructure, EVs have had a net positive impact on the environment by converting fleet vehicles to less polluting options as well as taking diesel trucks off the road.
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mass transit enables the individual to travel far and wide at low cost
public transit provides autonomy to the individual to travel without the liability of owning and operating a half-ton missile just to get around
The conservatives where I live shit blood absolutely any time any changes are made to roads to make them even slightly more pedestrian and bus/bike friendly. Preventing accidents/deaths and generally having a more usable, inviting environment for anyone that isn’t a car is unacceptable if it adds even a second to their commute. Go live on the fucking highway if you like it so much.
It's funny because adding more non-car options tends to make using a car more pleasant. But conservatives aren't known for being smart, correct, or good at long term thinking.
Every car commerical shows the fantasy of being the only car on the road.
It's so ludicrous. and consistent that when you know to look for it, it's actually hilarious.
People do not like traffic. They already hate most cars, cause they're only driving one.
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Yeah this. It's kinda wacky how serious they are about it.
They have been brainwashed by car and oil companies.
That doesn't excuse their ignorance, but it does highlight that the public information component will be very expensive to fix.
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