Accordingly, arguments presenting human patriarchy as a primate legacy appear misguided, and gender relations should be considered in relation to their social and ecological contexts.
David Graeber from beyond the grave: I fuckin told yall
this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2025
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Well, yeah...
Silverbacks used to be the go-to primate "alpha" example, but we know that "the tribe" isn't controlled by the Silverback, and it's not the biggest or most aggressive that "leads".
The females select more for compassion than anything. And the only real point of the Silverback in the tribe is to scare off rogue males.
Fights rarely happen, there just has to be a silverback already with the group to stop the rogues from hassling the group.
Even if a rogue male started a fight, and beat the group's silverback, there's still like 20 other gorillas, it's not like they only have conflict in 1v1 fights. They don't "win" leadership thru fighting.
The tribe just picks their own Silverback as designated chest thumper to avoid conflict.
That tracks with some human social groups I have met or been welcomed into.
There's usually one or two guys who are willing to play the "big scary" when necessary to get rid of creeps. The rest of the time they're usually the chill ones whose couch anyone can crash on.
I guess that is a kind of leadership, in itself.
But they usually aren't the one who decides which theater to go to.
There’s usually one or two guys who are willing to play the “big scary” when necessary
It's not even willingness...
I'm a huge dude, basically the human equivalent of a silverback.
Especially in big events like college/pro sports or music festivals, if I was with a large coed group, random dudes approached me before hitting on any of the women around.
It wasn't like they came up thumping chests or asking permission.
They'd just test the waters with me and if I seemed cool pivot to hitting on the women. Because out of everyone in the group, if I had a problem with them, I would literally and figuratively be their biggest problem.
But size doesn't mean shit in the modern world, so it's super weird for big guys, especially if it starts when they're young. Sometimes it goes to people's heads and that's pretty much where bullies come from. The people who tolerate that behavior and hang around reinforce it and it just feedback loops
Wasn't this shit not true from the get-go? not even to the wolves the whole idea came from?
Yep. David Mech is the one who basically coined the term “alpha wolf” based on an early study, and has since spent years of his career retracting that theory and explaining that male wolves do not fight for dominance in nature.
Yes. This is why when someone tells you they're an alpha male, you know they are really just an idiot
In the original studies they threw a bunch of adult wolves from different packs into a small enclosure. Then reported the fight for dominance as if it was how they normally act in nature. Most packs in nature are just a mom and a dad with kids from the last 2-3 years, who usually leave on their own.
Goes in line with a recent video I watched about this, and goes into the original study that sparked the whole Alpha Male thing. https://youtu.be/kpvpadX5mwM