a tale as old as time itself
this post was submitted on 13 Feb 2025
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Under this deal, Putin gets to annex key territories while Ukraine is kept out of NATO and left without American peacekeepers, forcing Europe to buy U.S. military gear. Imperialist powers divide and weaken working people by keeping nations in chaos and under constant threat. This brief period of "peace" isn't for long as capitalist interests allow Russia to regroup and rearm. Ukraine remains in a disordered, free-for-all state under imperialist influences. In time, this setup could let Russia launch an invasion through Odessa to connect with Transnistria.
What level do you need to be to cast Bubble of Illusion?
Level of Permenant Member with Veto Status (I don't know if they could block them joining, but I imagine they could)
Any nato member can prevent anyone from joining.
Literally the same words said in December 2021 could possibly prevent:
- invasion of Ukraine;
- death of dozens or hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and turning of millions of Ukrainians to refugees;
- destruction of dozens of Ukrainian cities;
- loss of Ukrainian territory to Russia;
- loss of Ukrainian rare minerals to US.
The Trump administration is just saying loud what all the other NATO governors have been hiding. No one ever planned to fight Russia for Ukraine and the only destiny for Ukrainian aboriginals is to be used as proxy cannon fodder to fight one of NATO's bogeymen.
NATO countries never cared about Ukraine's casualities to the point that they decided that Ukrainian lives were worth less than a signed piece of paper with the aforementioned statement: 'No NATO for Ukraine'. Everything that happens to the people of Ukraine is just collateral damage on the way to the main goal – to harm Russia. The colonizer mentality (so well known to many NATO countries) never changes.
I love how you get downvoted for stating the obvious.
Why stop now: they’ve been downvoting us for saying these same things for years.
voting is the only way libs know how to engage politically after all
That's what Daddy Putin wants, so that's what Daddy Putin gets.
This is what America wanted. Biden made no effort to provide Ukraine with the weapons to win.
Get ready to see a wave of far right terrorist attacks on US/European soil when they realize what we've been ridiculed for saying from day one: they were used as cannon fodder, there was never any intention of NATO membership
Europe is rapidly entering the finding out stages of fucking around.
Security guarantees? Europe's picking up the tab while Washington cashes out. Hegseth's "pragmatic evaluation" means funneling Europe's GDP into Lockheed Martin's quarterly reports. NATO's 5% defense spending target? A $2.3 trillion shakedown disguised as collective security. The Continent's industrial base is now a Pentagon subcontractor.
Crimea's gone. Zelensky's bargaining chips? A lithium deposit map and a graveyard of Leopard tanks. The "non-NATO peacekeeping mission" is just a rebrand for EU cannon fodder patrols. Von der Leyen's already drafting memos about "volunteer brigades" staffed by unemployed Iberian welders.
The real "negotiated settlement": Trump's Mar-a-Lago membership roster now includes Rosneft executives. Europe gets to foot the bill for demining Donbas while Chevron drills the Black Sea.
The fact that Europeans bet their whole future on a politically unstable country that can completely change its entire policy every four years will never stop being hilarious.
Europe's gamble isn't just hilarious; it's tragicomic. Hitching your entire geopolitical wagon to a nation that treats foreign policy like a reality TV show is less strategy and more roulette. Every election cycle, Europe braces for the next wildcard—will it be isolationism or interventionism? Nobody knows, least of all the Americans.
Meanwhile, the EU's "unity" is a patchwork quilt of conflicting interests, stitched together with bureaucratic duct tape. Betting on stability from across the Atlantic while your own house is on fire? That’s not foresight; it’s delusion.
The real punchline? Europe bankrolls this circus while Washington reaps the dividends. At this rate, they might as well start paying for campaign ads in Iowa.
Wouldn't this have had value as a bargaining chip in peace talks? The fact that they're saying this now suggests that they're about to pressure Ukraine into a truly shitty deal.
Hope this guy gets hit by a dump truck
Deadbeat dad doesn’t even begin to describe the abandonment.
We get:
- Nothing
You get:
- Less than nothing
What a fucking great deal!
What a fucking great deal!
Somehow it's always like that when some country get to serve as US proxy.
TBF the compradors get money & power, and if they’re really lucky they don’t get whacked.
Putin's investments are now paying dividends.
Everyone making decisions in either country for decades has been gunning for a war in Europe or actively profiting off of this one. The war will continue as long as it can by throwing money at it unless there's simply more to be made buying up the aftermath and installing collaborators to impose World Bank/IMF austerity for generations, or the bottom is rising up.
I'm surprised a Nazi like Hegseth wants to help Russia so bad.
Russia will eye Europe, and USA will keep eyeing Canada and Greenland.
Only a matter of time before they fabricate a reason for the public to believe and then they will invade.
And they will believe it. He’s already saying “matter of national security”. Americans have truly abandoned us. Half of them are still just waiting for the eggs while they prepare to invade other countries to play three player RISK before they die and leave the remainder for the climate.
They're only divided by a small strait, why can't we just stop all of the comical geopolitical attention grabs and just watch the US and Russia kiss?
With no guarantees of safety from future aggression, why on earth would Ukraine accept such a deal? This whole war started with Russia breaking their previous peace agreement.
Because Ukraine doesn't really have much of a choice in the matter, the entire point of the war was to get to a point where that could be certified. If Ukraine refuses any peace deals, Russia will just continue the war.
If Ukraine doesn't get any security assurances, then they're effectively still at war. This war started after supposedly getting promises of security for ceding Crimea.
They're not the ones pushing this negotiation. If they just wanted to stop the war and give Putin everything he wanted with no guarantees he won't just regroup and invade again they could have done that at any time.
There's also the factor of the Euromaidan coup, NATO encirclement of Russia, and the Ukranian shelling of Donetsk and Luhansk at play. Russia, more than anything, wants Ukraine to either be fully demillitarized or forced into NATO neutrality, and has the means to continue whether Ukraine wants it to or not. If Russia genuinely wanted to, it could keep going until Ukraine is just Russian territory, but I doubt that will end up being the case.
It isn't a moral problem, but a question of who holds the cards. Ukraine can make its loss more devastating for both sides, but has no real path to victory. It is better to sue for peace before more damage is done and lives are lost, clearly Russia is fine to continue as long as it needs to in order to secure its interests.
Ohhh, gotcha. I thought this was a real conversation, not just blindly repeating ridiculous Russian talking points about NATO aggression.
Just because Russia says something doesn’t mean it’s false. Calling something a “Russian talking point,” is not an argument, it’s a thought-terminating cliché.
What part of NATO encirclement is "ridiculous?" Even if I agreed with you that it is "ridiculous," clearly Russia thinks it isn't, which means the motives are still there for Russia to continue pursuing its goals until Ukraine gives in.
This feels more like you dodging having to grapple with that reality than anything else.
Why do you assume sincerity from Russian talking points? Russia already has borders with NATO and didn't go to war to prevent them. The war pushed Finland to join, which is not exactly a surprising result from renewed Russian invasions of conquest.
The whole reason I subscribe to ml politics is because commenters here are less blindly credulous about the disconnect between the statements of American political actors and their actions, but then you just trade it for an infinite well of trust for foreign regimes that at least until recently were blatantly worse.
have you heard of this little thing called geography? Like mountains and stuff? Have you ever actually looked at a map of the region?
NATO encirclement implies encirclement. Why do you think Russia is going to war in the first place? I don't trust everything Russia says, I think de-Nazification is a convenient narrative given the presence of Azov and other groups, but isn't the driving factor of the war (though is part of it). NATO encirclement is a known tactic, as NATO has origins as an anti-Communist, pro-Imperialist group that was formed to attack the USSR, and had Nazis such as Adolf Heusinger in charge. This is readily available information, from Operation GLADIO to Heusinger's Nazi past.
Why do you think Russia is going to war? What do they gain at the costs associated with the war?
This plus Danish intel means a large scale war in Europe is imminent.
Edit: my point is that Russia will escalate things in Europe as Danish intel has indicated. Donno why I'm getting downvoted.
Pretty sure Europe would require basic things like industry and energy production to fight a large scale war.
Keep in mind that state intel is as much or more in the job of disinformation as in information.