this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2025
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Flippanarchy

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Flippant Anarchism. A lighter take on social criticism with the aim of agitation.

Post humorous takes on capitalism and the states which prop it up. Memes, shitposting, screenshots of humorous good takes, discussions making fun of some reactionary online, it all works.

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[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 29 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

So without capitalism, AI would not be obfuscating the sources of ideas, mischaracterizing the content of works, polluting communication channels with vapid slop, enticing emotionally-vulnerable people to self-destructive behavior, accelerating disinformation, enabling scams, profiling thought-crime, producing nonconsensual pornography…?

There’s no denying that capitalism is steering AI (and everything) in a dark direction, but AI is also just hazardous by its very nature. Moving beyond capitalism won’t automatically make humans more careful than we’ve ever been.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (19 children)

AI would not be obfuscating the sources of ideas

Who would care? Why would it be important?

mischaracterizing the content of works

Huh?

polluting communication channels with vapid slop

That can already be dealt with moderation tools. If you don't like GenAI slop, just ban the people doing it.

enticing emotionally-vulnerable people to self-destructive behavior,

If people do this (big "if" here), then the cause is again in Capitalism (alienation) giving an incentive to do so.

accelerating disinformation

Root cause: capitalism

enabling scams,

Capitalism

profiling thought-crime

Huh?

producing nonconsensual pornography…?

We were doing that since photoshop.

Just because you can spam a bunch of scary concepts, doesn't mean they stand up well

[–] Mortoc@lemmy.world 17 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Another thing about AI slop is that it’s usually motivated by some sort of get rich quick thinking or plain old labor replacement. Both motivations disappear without capitalism.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Well, for myself, I just like generating pretty images for myself and my blogposts and to speed up my coding.

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[–] anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

AI is also just hazardous by its very nature

I think the point is that there's nothing hazardous inherent in its nature, and pointing to the problematic uses under capitalism isn't any more a description of 'its nature' than is pointing to an ass a description of a chair's nature.

AI is a tool, just like any other, and the harm caused by that tool is largely defined by how it's used and by who.

There's no doubt that LLM's and other generative models are disruptive, but suggesting that they are inherently harmful assumes that the things and systems they are disrupting aren't themselves harmful.

Most of what you're pointing to as harm caused by AI is far more attributable to the systems it exists in (including and especially capitalism) and not the models themselves. The only issue that I can see with AI inherently is its energy demand - but if we're looking at energy consumption broadly then we'd be forced to look at the energy consumption of capitalism and consumerism under capitalism, too.

I imagine the sentiment here would be wildly different if we were scrutinizing the energy demand of gaming on a modern GPU.

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[–] nature_man@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

No actually. I have multiple concerns with "AI" that would continue to be concerns in a completely non-capitalism based system.

It would take several hours to type out some of them, but some that are very simple are: the resources required to have these "AI" systems are extensive and would be better used elsewhere, there are things that should not be copied (especially without consent of the creator) and used in a LLM or any image generator, and these systems only exist because of capitalism, without being able to extract and steal value from others, there is really no use for them

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

You can run inference on desktop gpus. Copyrights are a state enforced monopoly, not a law of nature. I don't recognise any control of culture by anyone, including the author. The technology can just as well exist outside of Capitalism

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[–] flicker@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

db0 woke up today and chose violence again.

I keep screaming it and all the fucking liberals come out of the woodwork to shit on AI- they can virtue signal all they want but I survived on selling my art for years and me and all the other artists I know can't say it loud enough:

If you aren't paying for art now then why the fuck are you mad about AI "stealing jobs"? And if you don't make art for a living I promise you, no one is mad at not having to draw somebody's Sonic OC or latex fetish to live! Uncouple the need to sell art to live and people don't stop making art, they make more of what they want to make!!

AI gives the power to make things to people who can't. It doesn't take away my ability at all. Stop the capitalist system that enslaves artists, and we will make more, and better!

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 3 weeks ago

If you aren’t paying for art now then why the fuck are you mad about AI “stealing jobs”? And if you don’t make art for a living I promise you, no one is mad at not having to draw somebody’s Sonic OC or latex fetish to live! Uncouple the need to sell art to live and people don’t stop making art, they make more of what they want to make!!

I kinda wanna make a few spaces I help manage have a rule for April Fools day:

If you did not personally create the image, or pay for someone to create it from scratch, you are forbidden from sharing and viewing it. It is in violation of the copyright of the owner, and they did not give consent to the use of their Intellectual Property to be used and displayed in this manner. Copyright is automatically assumed to the creator, and unless consent was given to the exact person with demands, it is null and void unless stated.

99.99% of all media online weren't given consent to be shared or modified by the owners of the media. Everyone will say it's stupid for a company to try to expand its reach to the millions of faceless users. Yet will simp for them the moment they are briefly against AI. They will vouch for extensions to copyright, and say companies should purposefully creep their money and influence on the internet, because a bad AI model did something weird 5 years ago.

[–] Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Eh, I don't really buy it. You've still got an issue of plagiarism (notably not the same thing as copyright), soulless slop flooding creative spaces, the fact that LLMs just kinda lie all the time and then there's the abuse enabled by image models, icky stuff and it's absolutely not driven by capitalism.

Neural networks have a place in many fields, but when it comes to replacing human creativity, I'm not sold. I've certainly got no respect for anyone claiming to be an artist because they ran a program and stole the hardwork of potentially thousands of people. You can take away the profit motive, but you can't take out the social motives. People are dicks and capitalism isn't why they are, it's a symptom and a tool.

Maybe there's some use cases for that kind of thing, but I personally don't see it and think we'd be just fine leaving that sort of thing out of daily life. I don't see what we get beyond like making shitty graphics quickly or something, is that worth the harm?

[–] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 weeks ago

You can’t steal art. Art is a manifestation of emotion, an idea immortalized. You don’t get to own ideas once they pass from your mind to another.

Every bit of art out there in the public is as much mine as anyone’s. Copyright and “intellectual property” are ridiculous concepts with no bearing whatsoever in reality. The very idea you could own part of another person’s intellect is absurd.

“Oh look, you just read this, that means I own the neurons you formed to remember it. Better not use my comment to craft a reply, that would be wrong of you.”

That’s how stupid you sound.

[–] Jomega@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

That's your solution for everything.

[–] DebatableRaccoon 18 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

A good solution fixes multiple problems, young grasshopper.

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[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I don't think people will stop spamming lazy AI art if capitalism goes away.

[–] stray@pawb.social 5 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

People have always spammed lazy art, and we probably always will. Ancient runes boil down to "So-and-so was here," and we post countless images with text slapped on them every day. Most books are lazy, most TV shows are lazy, most songs are lazy. We mostly pay attention to the good ones, and the rest is background noise.

[–] flicker@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 weeks ago

In support of your comment; do you know how tired I am of "loss"?

Used to see Kilroy everywhere, too.

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[–] gsjdgrsg@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago

I think the vast majority of the anti-AI bullshit being spouted by the people in this comment section and the people in !fuck_ai@lemmy.world is just straight up trolling or copyright and capitalist friendly bootlicking.

The fact is that without capitalism the AI venture capitalist projects by tech bros wouldn't exist, but AI still would, open source, self-hostable, maybe even decentralized AI, but AI nonetheless. Also without capitalism copyright loses all it's meaning and desire and inevitably becomes problematic as a barrier hampering human creativity and knowledge. Asking for permission to make art is a courtesy, it shouldn't be required (especially for dead artists who can't give permission).

[–] octoham@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

I'm not gonna lie, in a post-capitalist world, I would have absolutely no issue with AI that isn't "AI art". Art is the product of human creative decisions and human creative expressions. Removing the human source of said art (in my view) strips it of being art.

[–] stray@pawb.social 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

This is an interesting topic to me. If I paint a landscape, I think most people would say that's art. What if I close my eyes and splash random paints at a canvas? What if I encourage my cat to track paint over the canvas with its paws? What if it's a robotic toy instead of a cat? If I create a program like Minecraft to produce aesthetically-pleasing vistas, is that art? Is a swallow's nest art? What if I physically do the painting, but I allow a random number generator to dictate my actions?

e: Elephants that paint recognizable objects were trained to do so by their handlers. When given access to paint and a canvas, elephants will happily smear the paint around with no apparent logic behind it. No non-human animal has been recorded reproducing an object visually of their own compulsion. Are the random paint smears of the elephant art? If I teach an elephant to paint a house, is that painting art? Who is the artist?

[–] flicker@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

The viewpoint you're responding to also disregards all the art made by elephants.

People are so desperate to hate on AI art that they will justify it a billion ways, but as an artist, let me tell you that art exists in nature. Art exists in a vacuum. Art can be found anywhere, made of anything, and it's not just the creator who imbues it with meaning. Ultimately, the lens through which the consumer is engaging the art is the final measure of it's meaning.

I wholly subscribe to the idea that it doesn't matter if an artist or an author or a musician meant to evoke a feeling- whatever feeling invoked is valid.

It's one thing for a bunch of people to say that AI art is meaningless because it's same-y or because it elicits no feeling in them or whatever. To dismiss the entirety of it because it had no connection to something as ephemeral as a human soul during it's creation is, at best, ignorant, and at worst, the kind of close-minded nonsense I'd expect from reactionaries who have no actual artistic experience.

To take it a step further- if a person has a reaction, any kind of reaction, to AI art, their feelings are not invalidated because of who or what generated that art.

[–] stray@pawb.social 4 points 3 weeks ago

That's a view I haven't heard before, that art is in the eye of the beholder in a very literal way, so that even an ordinary rock can itself be art if it causes someone to feel a certain way. That's not in accordance with the current dictionary definition of art, but it's certainly valid to argue that the definition should be broadened.

Elephant paintings are a perfect subject for the question of what art is, and I'll edit my previous post to reflect that.

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[–] MysticMushroom1776@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

The AI haters here are just flat out hypocrites, I mean why are you on this instance? Be honest, it was probably for !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com, the largest community here (and one of the largest on Lemmy), maybe you didn't and in that case maybe you just don't understand the main mission of dbzer0 and the fact that copyright isn't something we care about, but for those who do it is hypocritical if not downright asinine to support and participate in piracy but also say that "It's important to respect intellectual property" when people discuss AI projects and training of AIs. I mean if you pirate movies or games you certainly aren't respecting copyrights yourself. Maybe you think it's different but those companies feel just as offended, and it's evident from their sleazy efforts to fight against piracy.

There are so many arguments that can be made against AI and might even apply in certain situations (Corporate monster AIs like OpenAI) but this one is just fucking stupid, and you all make yourselves sound like trolls when you come here whining about the importance of copyright and intellectual property.

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