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Samsung eyes new battery tech to break free from its 45W charging prison (www.androidpolice.com)

submitted 3 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] Fiivemacs 60 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Or..just make a damn removable battery And allow people to buy new batteries. I don't need my phone to charge in half a second with a high chance of it exploding or killing itself from being charged at high speeds...I just want to be able to replace the shit you glued in

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

honestly agreed, I don't mind the fast charging, but I would love removable batteries. Even if it meant shorter life spans. like I used to be able to pay 20-30$ on a battery and replace it, but now you need adhesive and a heat gun

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (5 children)

I read somewhere about a phone that had 2 batteries, that way you could swap batteries with the phone remained turned on during the process!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

That was the case on the old Motorola StarTac. One battery was attached to the top of the flip, and then there was a larger battery that could be clipped onto the back. Both would power the phone so as long as one had power you could swap the other.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

my headset does this, I'm spoiled by it and I'll never go back. I'm fully ok with putting up with some of the issues with the headset exclusively cause of this feature. It's so nice

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Can you share the model name of your headset?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

I've used two headsets that done it, the Arctis Pro Wireless and turtle beach stealth pro, I highly recommend the Arctis Pro wireless over the turtle beach though as the Arctis Pro wireless was a seemless swap, where the turtle beach has a 10-15 second delay swapping battery.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The old ThinkPad T480 has this: an internal battery plus a hotswappable external one

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah my T460s has an internal and external

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

Nokia n900 could do it live, with a charger connected instead of a second battery.

You disabled the watchdog, because root access was officially supported, turned the brightness way down, connected the charger, and finally swapped the batteries.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Used to be somewhat common as I recall back with flip phones (yes Im old.)

New shiftphone at least has a replaceable battery iirc.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

I'm pretty sure taking out the battery of a feature phone would turn it off instantly.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

My Xiaomy (2, 5 note pro) had that, just power off, pop the back, switch in a fully loaded 5€ 3200mAh battery and go.

Had a "station" for charging them too.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

A pet peeve of mine is when I drop my phone 2 feet from the floor and the battery pops out.

I'd rather see a different mechanism where you trigger a battery removal by inserting a sim tool pin, just like how the sim cards are removed. This way, we can preserve IP ratings.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

Pretty sure it’s by design. It transfer the kinetic energy when it falls and keep the phone safe.

There’s reason why old Nokia is called indestructible.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

You can still replace the battery. It requires more work but it's generally not a complicated or difficult process on most phones and you only have to do it every few years. I'm not trying to defend non-removable batteries, but I think sometimes consumers pretend they are more powerless than they actually are over these issues.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)

With a replaceable battery, you just carry a second one and swap them on the go

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Isnt the problem with a swappable battery, like you describe, that the phone will lose its waterproofing?

Dont get me wrong, i dont think they should be welded to the internals like they are these days, they should be easily removable, but getting into the phone shouldsnt be super simple unless they find a decent way to waterproof a removable back plate.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm going to reply with a link to review of a phone that solved it with IP67 rating

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-galaxy-s5-smartphone,3908-3.html

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

That's pretty cool! i never had the S5. Looks like a good solution. It looks like it would work on a lot of phones today.

Although, i think there are design changes to consider on newer phones with more powerful hardware. I believe they contain empty space that is there to aid with cooling the phone so the solid body of the S5 shown in the link might not work, meaning there would need to be a specific cut out space for the gasket to seal against.

I appreciate that its probably not the most challenging problem to overcome, and i would very much appreciate companies spending more money on solving the issue. But i don't think its a "one size fits all" solution in a world of vastly differing design choices, folding phones and modular phones.

Having said all that, i would much prefer for there to be less makes and models of phone and for the focus to be on designing something that won't be useless in 5 years. It should all be about longevity and reducing e waste.

load more comments (7 replies)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

Just a sec Mom, I'll just change my battery!

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Funny they are stuck at 45 Watt, when other phones have been charging at 120 Watt for years.
My 2 year old midrange Xiaomi charges at 120 Watt! And the charger was included too! 😋

[+] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Do you have evidence to support that claim? Batteries and charging technology have come a long way over the years.

[+] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago

This site doesn't appear to definitively support your statement. The secton on ultra-fast charging, which appears to be written in relation to EVs rather than phones, does state that high temperatures and charging over 80%/keeping a battery at 100% can be detrimental to a battery's lifespan. However, the "scientific research" it claims to reference is nearly a decade old and so there is no mention of the advancements in cooling and charging technology that have occured in that time. It's the equivalent of someone basing their opinion on the technology that existed when the Galaxy S7 was a new phone. Most (all?) phones come with battery regulation features built into the software now, and there have been many improvements made to internal ventilation and heat distribution as well as the chargers themselves. I'm not convinced it's as clear cut as you're making it out to be and this extremely outdated website certainly doesn't support your argument.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

The way those super-fast charging batteries work is usually by splitting the battery internally. It's not one battery charging at 120W, it's 2 charging at 60 (or 3 at 40).

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

To charge your phone faster? What kind of question is this?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

If they can charge a car in 5 minutes using 1.3 MW charging, why wouldn't 120 Watt be fine for charging your phone in 20? Also the charging is protecting the battery by reducing speed as it approaches 100%. The lifespan seems fine, I'm not detecting any deterioration. By today's standards it's not even that fast. And it is very convenient to be able to top it off quickly. That way I also don't have to leave it charging overnight, I can do it while I make coffee and eat my breakfast. That way I minimize trickle charging which can also harm the battery.

The battery has to be made for fast charging, and Samsung is apparently way behind on that.

that’s already faster than what I’m comfortable with.

Then why did you buy a Samsung?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm curious what car charges at 1.3MW. Most I've heard of is closer to a quarter of that, and that's only for 20-80% before it drops back significantly because it generates significantly more heat gain the upper 20-30%

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

I’m curious what car charges at 1.3MW

BYD has the entire 1MW system ready in cars you can buy today, with charging stations for it being rolled out in China.
CATL has a battery capable of 1.3MW, but it is AFAIK not available in any cars yet.
Current high end Chinese cars on the market in EU are about 400 kW charging.

BYD Charges at 1MW, although they will probably not be available in America due to protectionism.
1.3 MW is the newest CATL Battery, which for American manufacturers were supposed to work with, but may be impossible now too due to protectionist tariffs.

https://insideevs.com/news/756144/byd-han-l-megawatt-charging/

BYD is launching two EVs that boast "Megawatt" charging capability, capable adding about 250 miles of range in just 5 minutes.

https://www.perplexity.ai/discover/top/catl-unveils-battery-charging-K2CWUCOTQuuj6G_DkbaTjw

peak charging rate approaching 12C with maximum charging power exceeding 1.3 megawatts

But even a pretty average 80-85kWh car today can charge 10-80% in about 20 minutes. More expensive cars do it in 15 minutes.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Trickle charging does not harm batteries. On the contrary, the slower you charge a battery the safer it is. This is why all battery protection reduces charging wattage as the battery gets more and more full. Fast charging damages batteries, faster charging means faster degradation. There's no way around that, it's just physics, entropy comes for us all. Battery makers are just betting you'll buy a new device before it becomes noticeable.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Trickle charging does not harm batteries. On the contrary, the slower you charge a battery the safer it is.

Charging when the battery full or very close to it is absolutely harmful, and that's what trickle charging does. It especially harmful if the charger isn't 100% accurate, and especially for Lithium batteries.
Apparently some people also use the term for just slow charging in general, but this is obviously what I meant in this context.
Trickle charging compensates for self discharge and the idle power used, so even when accurate, to keep charging a little bit to maintain a 99%-100% charge is definitely harmful.
It's way better to only charge to 80% for instance. Which is the reason all fast charging times for cars a measured up to 80%.

Trickle charging is damaging if for instance you charge your phone when you go to bed and don't disconnect the charger until morning, that means many hours of trickle charging at near full capacity.

Because my phone charges fast, it never trickle charges for long at near 100%.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Phones have had pretty good battery management for many years now. My phone adaptive charge gets to 80% and stays there without charging until 20 minutes before my alarm when it activates charging again to get to 100% exactly as the alarm goes off. The default behavior is a basic care that makes it so the battery stops charging at 100%, waits to drop to 95% then goes back again to full in a cycle. The risk of overcharging from leaving a phone charger connected overnight has been null for about a decade. Fast charging, on the other hand will always degrade the battery. It is way too much tension over way too short of a time span.

Trickle charging has only ever meant keeping electrical voltage on a full battery for acid batteries (actually overcharging). It has never meant that for consumer electronics.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It is way too much tension over way too short of a time span.

Except charging speed of a phone depends on the capability of the battery used for that phone, and new batteries that are made for it, can handle way faster charging than older batteries.

My phone adaptive charge gets to 80% and stays there without charging until 20 minutes before my alarm

Oh my god, that is the absolute worst. So the day you are extra busy and have to get up a little earlier than usual, and depend more on your phone than normal, it's only charged to 80%! That's exactly the kind of unintelligent solutions I hate. They always fuck up when it's most inconvenient.

the battery stops charging at 100%, waits to drop to 95% then goes back again to full in a cycle.

So repeated charging from 95% to 100% which is clearly not good for the battery.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago

You are wrong in all of your replies, but I have ran out of time to educate you. Good day.

[–] olicvb 9 points 3 weeks ago

Imo It's not quickly charging that's an issue, more about the capacity

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Personally, couldn't care less. I always disable fast charging and have been charging my phone at 5W for forever now without issue.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

And it’s better for battery health

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

I can't wait until one if these devices blows with 5000mAh of energy

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I mean after their latest hideous UI 7 update I'm never getting a Samsung again. I'm tired of them chasing Apple trash.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I dont keep up with apple products anymore, what did samsung do to mimic them in one UI 7? I thought they just added a couple of nothing features from stock android.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

They split the notification shade and control panel into two separate screens, accessed via a swipe down from either the top left or top right portions of the phone. It's quite similar to how iOS has worked for a long time now. I can see the benefits if you're someone who receives a lot of notification spam, because now you can see more of that on a single screen, but I've always been very strict with app notifications so it's essentially watered down the usefulness of both. It's far from the end of the world, though, and I'm sure I'll get used to it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

Oh! I quite like that change. I guess it's similar to apple in that it's separatated notofocations from quick settings, but doesn't apple have a swipe up and swipe down? Or is it double pressing the home button? I haven't held an iPhone in many years now, so i can't remember. But how you access the two menus is different. I dont think an apple user who tried android for the first time would intuitively know how to access the two menus. So i wouldn't say samsung had copied apple. Rather, they have been influenced by the idea. Plus, i believe stock android has this as an option in versions 15 and 16

That aside. You can go into your settings and swap back to the old notification shade.