this post was submitted on 20 May 2025
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[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 day ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (2 children)

1960s was when the hypothesis of continental drift was empirically confirmed (leading to modern plate tectonics) but it was part of a prominent family of hypotheses (contending with isostatic models) more than a century prior.

The most complete of these models was offered by Wegener (paper in 1912, book in 1920). European geologists were generally receptive to it in the 1920s, and by the 1940s it was the working assumption for most field work. The only geologists to outright reject the idea initially were part of a North American contingent.

As to why Americans in particular, there were a few reasons, but a big one is that they didn’t read German and the first English edition of Wegener’s book was a draft-quality translation with issues relating to clarity and “tone.” The author was perceived to be dismissive of current work in the field (he was merely unaware of similar models offered previously) culminating in a summit seminar where a talk was given challenging the hypothesis and criticizing the methodology.

Interestingly, Wegener attended this talk, yet chose to remain silent. He never confirmed why. I would guess language barrier and shyness but I don’t know. Regardless, the matter was considered closed by those in attendance and his model’s acceptance by North American geologists lagged behind.

As a result, geology in American primary education saw the most dramatic curricular shift in the 1970s and 1980s. I suspect that’s why older Americans have this impression of a sudden change in scientific consensus. The true story is more interesting IMO.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm seeing a recurring theme

[–] [email protected] 5 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

Please don’t conflate American scientists and American politicians. There is absolutely zero intersection between those two groups, and if you don’t think American scientists are on the forefront of nearly every field of research I don’t know what to tell you…

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago

American scientists are on the forefront of nearly every field of research

Even if we were, I think we must concede that we’re in the bargain bin now, or soon will be. 750M of current research grants at my school alone, likely more to come, and certainly fewer if any new grants outside whatever pet projects the regime fancies. Best of luck, wherever you land.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

You’re conflating modern sciences with historic geology, and tossing in a dash of denialism to boot. There’s a well known adage called Planck’s principle (IIRC) which basically says that science advances one funeral at a time:

A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

Also, science was very much a good ol’ boys club of people that often came from wealthy backgrounds because they could afford the education to become scientists, so they were very much big egos trying to keep their theories and discoveries attached to their names even in the face of more correct or contradicting information.

Nowadays the egos may not be quite as large, though there definitely plenty that resist change due to ego or other personal interest, but absolutely politics influences science in multiple ways. It determines who gets funding, what commercial interests pay and benefit from the discoveries, and what gets presented to the public.

Sure would be nice if all scientific results were unbiased, accessible, and free, but unfortunately that’s not always the case.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I lack the knowledge to add anything important to that topic but I wanna say, it seems ridiculous for this to be true. Not believing a scientific theory due to tone.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 19 hours ago

Agreed. It’s an instructive anecdote re: the importance of presentational clarity but also of charitable interpretation.

[–] [email protected] 65 points 1 day ago (2 children)

To oversimplify: there was not a demonstrable process that could explain the movement of huge sheets of solid rock, that's where the reluctance came from. It wasn't until the ocean floor mapping of the 60s that we understood the non-random nature earthquakes and the existence of mid-ocean ridges that lead the scientific community to accept "seafloor spreading" as the mechanism of Alfred Wegener's proposed continental drift.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Still really random (to us), just a bit less now.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Wasn’t a substantial element mapping during WW2? That was when they discovered the patterns/changes in earth’s magnetic field over millenia.

[–] [email protected] 83 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Just pointing, but people had been speculating about tectonic plates for a really long time. A century before geologists finally allowed one of them to point it and accepted looking into it, fringe scientists already had an overwhelming amount of evidence.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago

Did they have a cigarette after thinking about it though?

[–] DrBob 28 points 1 day ago
[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Well now I am hella curious: What did they think caused earthquakes before the 60s? 🤔

[–] [email protected] 103 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] modifier 42 points 1 day ago

You kid but, at least in the US, we’re going to be perpetually a week away from returning to that time for the next 3 years and change - best case scenario.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Actually the post is wrong. Geologists had the general idea long before that. The detailed explanations were missing, but matching rock formations and borders and using common sense is quite old.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

My grandfather went to school for geology in the 60’s (US), and told me that plate tectonics was taught to him as a new/tentative thing.

I wonder if some element could be related to being in the south - plate tectonics doesn’t really align with creationism that well, and too this day you can’t really safely teach human evolution. (Yesterday, I informed a high schooler that dinosaurs were real. He was pretty happy to learn this.)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

Your moms bed.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago

I figure they first needed Inge Lehmann to figure out that there was an inner core, outer core, and mantle which she didn't do until 1933, eight years after she started doing seismology. And it took three years before she published it which brings us to 1936. It was accepted fairly quickly but then came the war. And after the war seismology was really big on listening to nukes. Sixties makes sense.

Inge Lehmann - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inge_Lehmann

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

This scene was overheard in a 1950s pediatrician's office, who then offered the soft-pack of filterless "toasted" smokes to the 8yr old and her mother.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Protect your child! Give them a Kent cigarette with a micronite filter.
Kent, the one cigarette that can show you proof of greater health protection.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 18 hours ago

Nothing catches cigarette tar better than an asbestos filter 🚬👄

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

this fact brought to you by the delicious relaxing taste of Daisy Duke Cigarettes.

if you want a nuke, smoke a Daisy Duke!

[–] ininewcrow 10 points 1 day ago

"Take those lead paint chips out of your mouth! .... wipes his face with some asbestos .... now here mommy will show you how to make smoke rings ... cough, cough, hack, hack, wheeeeeeeze"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

It's like the new enlightenment is just right now.

We are also going to look back at bioteck from now and be horrified in a not so distant future.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Only if the kid was overweight, though