this post was submitted on 27 May 2025
-12 points (39.3% liked)

Men's Liberation

2132 readers
2 users here now

This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.

Rules

Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people

Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.


Be productive

Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.

Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:

  • Build upon the OP
  • Discuss concepts rather than semantics
  • No low effort comments
  • No personal attacks


Assume good faith

Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.


No bigotry

Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.


No brigading

Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.

Recommended Reading
Related Communities

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
Kokomheart
[email protected]
-12
Misandry isn't real because if you have any problems you aren't a man and don't count. (lemmy.world)
submitted 4 days ago by [email protected] to c/mensliberation
22 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I'm getting really sick of leftist social media like Bluesky just being about being another echo chamber and completely unaware of it because "we're the good politics!"

The sentiment that men are only men if they're associated with the right has been out in full swing for a few years now and it's just tiring.

Harris didn't win because men will never accept a woman president. Except all the men who voted for her, they don't count, the left gets told it has a problem with men all the time and deflects by saying that it's men who have the problem by going to the right and supporting them.

Never, not once, are men acknowledged for supporting leftist beliefs or voting for the party, and it's even looked down upon when they ask for acknowledgement, like it's entitlement while men on the right live rent free in the heads of the leftist base.

Men get shit on for being asked to be recognized as men on the left but that identity is freely given to men on the right, they don't have to ask to be acknowledged or recognized because they're doing what is expected by being the bad guys.

Straight men in particular, you'll be recognized as a man on the left if you're gay because it assures everyone who isn't a man you don't want anything from them.

Like for fuck's sake the right is abhorrent and shames women and LBGTQ people for their existence I don't know how the left got to this point of also saying "you're not really a man unless you hate women" and not realizing they're perpetuating the same bullshit.

Like I don't hate women for being women, but I fucking hate when people assert "all men just hate women" because it's dumb shit gender essentialism that is just dismissing anything a guy might say in response that isn't telling the speaker to go fuck themselves.

Yeah of course the right is doing better with men, they aren't shaming them for existing and only acknowledging them as being pieces of shit.

It's frustrating because there's days where I want to say fuck it and go join the other side and I think the left actually wants that more than the right does because they validate men who do it and men who stick with the left? "Yeah whatever do you want a medal?"

How about to be recognized as the gender I identify as and a human being? Apparently too much to ask when it's a man.

top 22 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago

Any documented examples of left wing men being told they aren't real men for being on the left by left wing non-men?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Feels like I'm being baited here...

As (I am) a full swing left cis het white guy, you're feeling written off because people aren't acknowledging you?

Man I'm pretty happy to apologize for the arrogance exhibited by the majority of my ilk, to be acknowledged that we aren't all like that, and to have it never be brought up again. I don't need a spotlight shone on me, my troubles are the same as most people's, except I'm not fighting to keep my rights or having my character questioned because of my nature (something that I've noticed should probably be happening more, but I'm among the privileged that are first overlooked).

You voted for Kamala, did you also vote for Obama twice? And would've a third time? Paying lip service and voting are the absolute minimums you could do, and I don't think you can say we aren't represented by the left wing when we have newsome, sanders and 50% (number from my ass) of the rest of the left wing elected officials representing cishet white guys, and those who aren't are still representing us, I've not heard 1 of them say "down with white guys".

I come from Christopher Titus 'love is evol' school, "I'm whitie and I apologize" I don't need any more help or acknowledgement than what I'm given getting to exist in this society built around people like me for me, I just want to see others share in the privilege that I've existed in my entire life.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 days ago

You can call it bait and be dismissive, but it's a real problem for Democrats. It's not all exactly the same, but this is consistent with why Republicans made gains with unions, White men, and Latinos.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yeah this is obvious bait.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I probably just added ammunition to the algorithm for how to deal with people when these asinine questions are posed, I'm a bad future citizen. My grandkids (lol) will question why I acknowledge these obvious traps and keep taking for future scams... Back in my day I trained these things, of course they're going to get me every time.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago

I was about to write a long-ass response, but I saw your comment mentioning that it might be bait and I realized you were right. Our grandkids are going to have to defeat the algorith just like we slay the dragons of our own ancestors.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 days ago (1 children)

This post resonates with me. People dismissing it as "bait" are doing precisely the thing OP is complaining about.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

Appreciate it

[–] considerealization 7 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I’d like to understand why this post is being hit with downvotes and dismissal. Isn’t the point of this sub to address these kinds of issues and perspectives, confronting them if they need critique perhaps, but providing a space to talk thru and work towards an equitable liberation for all, inclusive of men?

The first rule in the sidebar is “assume good faith” but multiple comments are making (afaict) groundless accusations of bating. What gives?

To be clear, I am not saying I co-sign this post. But what I see is someone voicing hurt and a feeling of not feeling safe or recognized, while I think there is a fair bit of inaccurate generalization being made on the basis of that hurt, the hurt is valid and some of the dynamics identified I think are obviously real too.

I’m just a bit confused about whether this sub is what I took it to be, or if there is some context I’m missing or something.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago

This community isn't well named. The prevailing opinion tends to be men are a problem until proven otherwise. It's not about addressing men's issues, unless those issues are how they can stop inconveniencing women.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

The first rule in the sidebar is “assume good faith” but multiple comments are making (afaict) groundless accusations of bating. What gives?

Because the actual baiting is calling anything that doesn't go with the desired consensus of the accuser as bait.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago

obvious propagandist is obvious @[email protected]

why is your handle a South Park reference, Fritz?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago (2 children)

inb4 trying to engage with an obvious bait post

I'm not sure what you mean by "acknowledge men". Can you expand on that?

I would agree that the left tends to pick on men, but you seem to be probing at something other than "the left picks on men while the right doesn't", and I'm not clear what that is.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It's often easier to point to a problem than to suggest a solution. That's mostly the problem of the left in fact : they (we) point at the problems of minority, and this makes it mostly like the solution is to stop the problematic behaviour.

But it's much harder than that in practice when the problem is patriarchy. The whole society is the problem. And the left doesn't show a 'ew model, it only says that the old model must be destroyed. Which is completely true. But what will be left of the chaos?

A society must be build on culture. And right now the left destroys the old culture that must be destroyed, and it can feel that nothing is built to replace it.

IMO the center of the problem is the heterosexual relationships. How do you interact with the other sex. And it is not about what you shouldn't do, but what you should do.

For an example, courteous love was invented in the middle ages for this purpose. As was the ideal of the knight. Later it became the renaissance man, although the name is from modern history.

The question is what the modern men and women be. It is cultural work that must be done, and very, very few people ever touch on this subject.

And this absence means that all that progressive men ear is what's targeting at the conservative assholes. And more often than not it makes no distinction. In fact, very often it even warns those men that pretend to be allies but aren't. This antagonistic discourse is wearing and tearing on the soul.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

And this absence means that all that progressive men ear is what’s targeting at the conservative assholes. And more often than not it makes no distinction. In fact, very often it even warns those men that pretend to be allies but aren’t. This antagonistic discourse is wearing and tearing on the soul.

Yeah well put

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

That if a man says "hey I'm a man I don't want to be picked on I want to be accepted for who I am" the response isn't "ah ok cool sounds good we want that for everyone", it's a dismissal and assumption that being a man means you already are accepted or don't need community outside of what men are painted to be.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago (2 children)

First off, thanks for an honest and non-shitpost response (there's got to be a better way to phrase that but its not coming to me atm).

I don't think the problem is as severe or systemic as you're making it out to be. I think if the individual you're speaking to lashes out at the mention of you being a man, then that individual is an asshole and that's just kinda the end of it.

Can you give some concrete examples you've experienced/seen of this? I'm unfamiliar with the community rules on linking to other posts (and app doesn't let me save comments drafts to double check), but if that's allowed and you can link to examples of this (since it seems like you're referencing online interactions), I'd appreciate it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

I don’t think the problem is as severe or systemic as you’re making it out to be. I think if the individual you’re speaking to lashes out at the mention of you being a man, then that individual is an asshole and that’s just kinda the end of it.

I think the problem here is that there is a tendency to support your own team so to speak and oppose the other team that gets used to justify being an asshole and turns into a dogpile. Or birds of a feather flock together maybe. Either way the voices of those people get amplified and shout down anyone who disagrees.

Take the CEO of the onion dating a woman running for a position in the House of Representatives, the loudest voices were just being dismissive of the idea that that should be anyone's business or that either of them would ever do anything unethical with that relationship or that satire isn't journalism and the CEO can't have influence over anyone.

which holy shit if a politician on the right was dating the CEO of a right wing company people would be really upset, and there were plenty of people pointing this out or that the same standards should apply regardless of party and not calling for any consequences either, but then getting told that they're really just trolls who want her to not run for office because the social hivemind on the left loves to find the worst examples of people and then say that anyone who agrees with a base opinion they hold must be the same as those people.

which drives me fucking nuts because it's exactly what the right does but they do it to the left while the left does it to their own fucking base whether it be about applications of ethics or gender stuff

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I mean I just got told on Bluesky that it's ok to say "men.... Negative think" And it's everyone else's responsibility to know you really just mean specific men and I'm telling on myself as one of those men for taking any issue with the practice.

Hell the post I was originally replying to had screenshots of people being shitty to men and the response to them was that random posts aren't proof when like yes that's how proof works, but the goalpost gets moved to "well it's not a real problem" and downplayed instead of anyone just defusing the situation by saying "yeah that sucks, people shouldn't be shitty to men just like they shouldn't be shitty to women".

I'm not keeping a collection of posts nor do I think it's this sweeping universal thing, I run into posts being shitty and ignore them and move on until I make a vent post about it but I'm not tracking them as they happen, which apparently you need to because that's the other counter, that anecdotes aren't proof, which agreed they aren't, but it's telling IMO that the reaction to guys saying they feel this way is usually a lot more charged and accusatory than a guy saying he doesn't like the current state of things.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with anything you're saying in this or your other comment (to be absolutely clear, I'm saying I mostly agree with you). While I don't think the problems are necessarily systemic, I do agree there's a lot of folks who like to beat up on dudes for existing as a dude.

until I make a vent post

I think this is where I got the wrong impression. I assumed you were trying to hit at a solution (beyond "everyone should be more cognizant of how they talk to people), but it this is just you venting frustrations, then I hope it helped and I hope you don't get any backlash from letting out your frustrations. Lol, I don't know that I know if a better place for it, but I don't think this is your best venue.

"men.... Negative think"

One last thing though: what do you mean by this? The way its framed, it sounds like you mean it as a literal quote....but I'm not sure what context that could exist in to make that make sense?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

men… Negative think”

One last thing though: what do you mean by this? The way its framed, it sounds like you mean it as a literal quote…but I’m not sure what context that could exist in to make that make sense?

Oops I meant "men... Negative thing" as in a statement starting with men followed by a negative statement (e.g. men are such pigs!)

And I am venting frustrations but also saying it's a vent post because of the powerlessness to enact a solution outside of my immediate reach, which is the real solution is do what is can to be better to people I interact with and it will spread but it's one thing irl and one thing with social media where it's a beast trying to defeat better communication with "engagement", it's fighting an uphill battle. Can't dismantle the master's house with the master's tools as they say.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 4 days ago

Hey mods, why is this obviously bigoted propaganda still here? Does this community need more attention?

@[email protected]
@[email protected] @[email protected]