this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025
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She finds the whole idea absurd. To Prof Marci Shore, the notion that the Guardian, or anyone else, should want to interview her about the future of the US is ridiculous. She’s an academic specialising in the history and culture of eastern Europe and describes herself as a “Slavicist”, yet here she is, suddenly besieged by international journalists keen to ask about the country in which she insists she has no expertise: her own. “It’s kind of baffling,” she says.

In fact, the explanation is simple enough. Last month, Shore, together with her husband and fellow scholar of European history, Timothy Snyder, and the academic Jason Stanley, made news around the world when they announced that they were moving from Yale University in the US to the University of Toronto in Canada. It was not the move itself so much as their motive that garnered attention. As the headline of a short video op-ed the trio made for the New York Times put it, “We Study Fascism, and We’re Leaving the US”.

Starkly, Shore invoked the ultimate warning from history. “The lesson of 1933 is: you get out sooner rather than later.” She seemed to be saying that what had happened then, in Germany, could happen now, in Donald Trump’s America – and that anyone tempted to accuse her of hyperbole or alarmism was making a mistake. “My colleagues and friends, they were walking around and saying, ‘We have checks and balances. So let’s inhale, checks and balances, exhale, checks and balances.’ I thought, my God, we’re like people on the Titanic saying, ‘Our ship can’t sink. We’ve got the best ship. We’ve got the strongest ship. We’ve got the biggest ship.’ And what you know as a historian is that there is no such thing as a ship that can’t sink.”

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I left, but am completely dependent on my US Social Security retirement, which I paid into my whole working life. What if the fascists shut it down? 72 year old homeless wandering the world?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I also left, absolutely no regrets. The US was holding me back and it was dangerous for me to live there. But I still tear up every time I think about the community I left behind

[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 days ago (2 children)

My colleagues and friends, they were walking around and saying, ‘We have checks and balances. So let’s inhale, checks and balances, exhale, checks and balances.’

Er, no, America, you don't have checks and balances. Not any more. Have you not been paying attention? That stuff is GONE.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Um, that's exactly what she was saying.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago

Most people have not been paying attention. Their knowledge of politics ends with what they remembered from school and the occasional AI-generated rage bait they see on social media.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I have been telling people.... Run. Now. If you can't, make sure you are set up to run at a moment's notice. Money, passport , whatever is needed

IN WW22 Germany the only ones who survived... Got out at the beginning

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

How does one flee the country when you live paycheck to paycheck and provide no skills that could be useful to a country's economy? I'm decent with computers but that's about it.

What country would even take me without me having to lower my already low standard of living? At the very minimum, I need a house with a yard + garage (I'm tired of condo/apartment living) and affordable gigabit internet. No legal weed is a deal breaker as well. Can't eat or sleep without it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 16 hours ago

At the very minimum, I need a house with a yard + garage (I'm tired of condo/apartment living) and affordable gigabit internet. No legal weed is a deal breaker as well. Can't eat or sleep without it.

You're discussing servival and all your examples of why you can't leave are that it seems inconvenient to adjust. Either you're not actually worried about the outcome of staying or your priorities are backwards.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Your "low" standard of living is not low at all for mosy countries. So, yes, lowering that standard is necessary if you want to leave.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

By "low" I mean that I don't get any sort of government assistance, not even healthcare. I consider that a rather low standard of living.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Everyone has skills that can benefit a country, you just haven't found yours yet I guess.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

While it's lovely to personally believe what you do, that isn't the way those in charge of immigration tend to see it. Most countries prioritize immigrants with specific skillsets, while those not listed often have to figure out some other avenue to entry.

For example, here's a list of Canada's preferences - Federal Skilled Worker Program Eligible Occupations.

[–] Tiger666 1 points 1 day ago

That is for immigration, not for asylum.

[–] [email protected] 101 points 3 days ago (34 children)

Must be nice to be financially stable enough to run away.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 3 days ago (1 children)

An academic who's job is is to know these things is spending the money to do it. That's the take away here. They're the Canary in the Coal Mine.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Most people who run from their country are all but financially stable.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

And I was called a fascist bootlicker when I suggested that when people with guns tells you to leave the area, you comply...

....and then you make plans.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Albert Einstein left Germany too. However, I have heard it was more about money and the fucking Nazis were the number 2 reason.

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[–] [email protected] 60 points 3 days ago (5 children)

As others have already commented, not everyone can just leave. Also, if we could all leave, who would take so many USA immigrants?

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Not everyone has the option but those who do and are at risk and know they can't bring upon any positive change by staying, should leave.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Yeah. My sister's spouse is NB and they have significant means. I encourage them to leave with my nephew because I want them all safe.

I'm a white, male, Christian gun-owner. I can blend in for now and don't have the same financial resources. I'm also single and childless, so I can also care for my parents who are blind to what's happening.

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[–] [email protected] 106 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (98 children)

That's a shit lesson to take from 33. My takeaway is don't let the brown shirts win. I'm not running from my country with my tail between my legs.

Fascists can fuck off, in fact ~~70~~ 7 millions just assembled to say just that.

Edit: I didn't think staying in my country of birth and fighting for freedom and decency would be such a hot button issue.

To all of you who felt the need to be condescending I'd just say tighten up and show some backbone. Real disappointing. So you may be shot and sent to a gulag. You wouldn't be the first, probably not the last. Try not to let fear and righteousness dictate your feelings.

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[–] [email protected] 66 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I don't blame people for running, but personally I've always found that Fighting Fascism is a Fine Hill to Die On.

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[–] [email protected] 88 points 3 days ago (1 children)

She did her part by educating us and it's obvious she'll be among the first to be targeted. It only makes sense that she should flee.

I, for one, am grateful that she spoke the truth in that NYT opinion piece.

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