this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2025
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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago (4 children)

This is one of the reason that the USA being heavy handed with Chinese is going to bite us in the ass. While in the USA, we bury our heads in the sand and GM, Tesla and etc. all crank out $95,000 giant trucks/SUVs, some companies in China are making very, very affordable vehicles. These aren't necessarily garbage either -- there's models available for almost any price point.

What WOULD be really smart and forward thinking is if in the USA, the domestic brands also make some affordable models to get EV more popular. However, they are addicted to fat profit margins, and thanks to all the protectionism, they don't need to worry about offshore models being "better".

While other nations either develop and/or import affordable EVs, we're effectively banning them. This is all going to end up with a giant wake up call for American auto-manufacturers when the protections/tariffs are ultimately lifted and they HAVE to compete.

I think it would be great if the tariffs came with huge incentives for domestic manufacturers and motivated them to be competitive. Instead, it's just letting them segment the market for a few years and make a killing. Who loses? The people...

[–] weew 16 points 1 day ago

These cars are passing EU safety tests which are generally more demanding than the USA.

They are definitely getting good, fast.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago

Not just people, the economy will end up paying the price.

Tariffs have horrible second order effects.

Every companies outputs is some other companies inputs.

American companies end up locked out of more affordable vehicles as inputs. That cost then gets baked into its output, which is some other company’s input. Then just keep following that chain.

The best broad blanket tariffs can hope to do is trade long term competitiveness for some short term price increase.

Americans will wonder why other nations eat our lunch in the coming decades. Well that foreign company could buy the cheaper machine to produce the widget, their raw materials cost less to deliver because the transit company that ships it in charges a better rate because they have lower vehicle overhead. Since they have 2 dozen suppliers for their components both foreign and domestic they are forced to compete on quality and price.

American companies will become even more bloated and inefficient

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

This is the real reason for tarrifs. Forcing citizens into paying ridiculous prices so biliionares can circle jerk about how much more power they can get. They're scourges and bottomless voids of resources and misery.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Even before the current political situation I wouldn't have bought a Tesla. They have a documented quality problem and not very good customer service at least outside of the US.

Why would I buy a car that is not only more likely than most to break but when it does break it's hard to get fixed. Spare parts are notoriously hard to get hold of and you usually have to deal with Tesla directly which is a problem because they don't have a lot of dealerships in the UK. Also they won't come to you, so if your car won't start you have to arrange a pickup.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They have terrible customer service in the US too. I think it's their business model: find people who enjoy being treated like an asshole and sell them overpriced shit.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

So like Apple but more expensive

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 day ago (5 children)

I used to like and look up to SpaceX for the interesting stuff that they build,

but nowadays i don't care anymore. The company can fail for all i care. Musk spoiled it.

The tipping point, for me personally, was when Musk seriously threatened to slash public spending in February this year. It shows a clear disrespect to the people, and frankly, a sociopathic attitude.

Musk had everything, lots of money, lots of fame, lots of influence, but he threw it all away when he decided to threaten the wellbeing and lifelyhood of a lot of people just so that rich assholes can make an extra buck through tax cuts.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 day ago (6 children)

SpaceX should be nationalized. We paid for it, it's ours.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I don't know why you didn't just fund NASA properly.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Government agencies can't bribe as good. Our politicians are whipped dogs who sell the free world for less than an F-150 a year in kickbacks.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

For those maybe blissfully ignorant of car culture that's an F-150 (the grocery getter for fragile egos) oversized pickup truck , and not some fighter jet.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago

Agreed. This system of giving out money and getting what we paid for sold back to us is fucking dumb.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

He's basically gutting NASA so it can be reduced to a taxpayer-funded corporate subsidy for greedy billionaires and giant corps. They're killing everyone's dreams and inspiration.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 day ago

Better super late than never.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Did not zee this happening.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Here in the UK Musk is just seen as an idiot. Some decent European EV solutions coming along but the Chinese cars are so much better value than Tesla OR the main European makes. Couldn't happen to a nicer megalomaniac and as a plus I love seeing the monthly SpaceX explosions

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Looking forward to Tesla reporting Q2 earnings next month. I assume another round of disastrous numbers paired up with some vaporware distraction. Perhaps they can keep this charade going, but at some point reality will catch up.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Chinese electric cars are just better. BYD is what Tesla wanted to be, but actually fulfills its promises. Plus it isn't ran by a nazi dictator.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I uh.. you sure about that dictator thing? xi jinping enters the chat

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

If you think Xi Jinping is dictating what BYD does with their cars then you don't understand the fundamentals as to why China managed to attract so much foreign investment and got to where they are now in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (15 children)

Foreign investment was because of cheap labor and companies being subsidized by the communist government......

BYD might make a better car than Tesla, but saying that a Chinese company isn't "under the control of Xi Jinping", the guy who crushed Hong Kong for having too much independence and wants to do the same with Taiwan, is laughable.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's actually a bit of a myth you know. Labour in China used to be dirt cheap 30 years ago but that's not the case now. You need experts to build cars and they demand an appropriate salary. They probably don't get paid as much as they would in the west but they're not being paid pennies an hour either. However the idea that China is cheap has persisted.

There's a reason that Apple doesn't make the iPhone there anymore. It was getting too expensive ie they were being asked to pay for a decent wage, and they weren't prepared to.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

I was more saying cheap "when companies moved in". Now it just has the workforce and supply chain knowledge/infrastructure because of those investments.

Corporate fucktard assholes are running out of cheap labor around the world. They keep moving it around, but eventually there won't be any place to go.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

Watch the RichRebuilds review of Chinese EVs. There is a lot of "make it look good" in their engineering, like massive painted brake calipers...that are a single piston. The cars probably aren't as quality as other EVs, but the prices, specs, and niche features are very compelling. I'd definitely consider one in the US. Anything that isn't a Tesla or a massive crossover would be great.

[–] [email protected] 200 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (10 children)

USA could have spent money developing an electrified economy but the republicans are focusing on bringing back coal mining and reshoring shoe manufacturing instead.

This admin has set the USA back 100 years.

ETA - what I mean is that China is rampaging on in electrification, developing manufacturing skills, infrastructure, and design/engineering/technology around renewables and electrification. Europe is thinking about it but not going crazy to the extent China is, because legacy - China doesn’t have 100 years of cars and 150 years of trains; they’re building new. USA meanwhile is actively regressing under Republican policies.

[–] [email protected] 55 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Which kind of blows my mind. Coal miners should love EVs. There was a story in the news a few years ago about how nice it was for the miners to help someone in an EV, as if they should be mortal enemies.

Non-EV cars don't run on coal, they run on gasoline. EVs on the other hand can run on coal, natural gas, solar, wind, you name it - and still are more energy efficient than cars burning gasoline. In a sane world, coal miners would be throwing their support behind electric vehicles. The utility companies seem to understand this, but seems like the support hasn't made its way up the supply chain.

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[–] [email protected] 70 points 2 days ago (2 children)

And in the US we just block foreign options because it is gov policy to artificially support specific corporations.

[–] [email protected] 59 points 2 days ago (2 children)

the country of free market capitalism...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don't think that has ever been true, really. Nor should it be, Laissez Faire is a trainwreck waiting to happen, probably literally and figuratively.

Textbooks will tell you that the USA, and other countries like China and Russia, are a regulated "Market System" which in some markets teeters on strict Oligopoly.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Oddly libertarians never acknowledge that market leaders ask for theses things. The biggest threat to the free market are capitalists themselves.

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