this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2024
82 points (96.6% liked)

Asklemmy

44796 readers
974 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy πŸ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 69 points 3 months ago (1 children)

C) keep the planet we have habitable

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 months ago (9 children)

our planet could easily be wiped by a number of things. if we dont plan for a planetary catastrophe out of our control, our species is doomed.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (3 children)

a planetary catastrophe out of our control

You're still describing climate change. Science fiction ideas are fun to think about but our own inability to live harmoniously with nature is going to kill us off before any of those problems become relevant.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

youre still not thinking astronomically. you need to think bigger. i like to at least pretend out technology advances.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I was kind of surprised that comet that's been visible at night was only discovered like a year ago. Crazy to think that would be the warning time of anything coming to hit us

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

There are black holes that travel at the speed of light. If one were to pass through our astronomical neighborhood we would never see it coming and it would end our existence so instantaneously that it would be like our species and planet never existed.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

I didn't realize they were mobile, that is terrifying.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Humanity can easily survive a KT extinction event. Sure, 99.999% of us will die, but tens of thousands will still survive.

[–] DrinkMonkey 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If I use your math of 99.999% dying, only ~80,000 people will survive, not millions…

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

Thanks, updated comment

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 months ago (2 children)

If we can't manage to keep Earth's ecosystem thriving to support us, we certainly won't be able to create a new self-sustaining ecosystem elsewhere. And without that, there's no chance of any non-Earth settlement being able to sustain a healthy human society and culture long-term.

Without some serious (currently impossible) terraforming, Mars colonies are limited to deep caves or heavily shielded buildings, no outside to relax, nowhere else to go. Have a look at the list of crimes in Antarctica, a similar situation where people are stuck together, that's not a good environment for mental health, and it will be worse farther away. A Mars colony (edit: or space station) owned by a private company will be a corporate prison, the inhabitants are 100% dependent on that company - who would voluntarily put their lives into the hands of the whims of some narcissistic hoarder with no empathy or regard for workers?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If we can’t manage to keep Earth’s ecosystem thriving to support us, we certainly won’t be able to create a new self-sustaining ecosystem elsewhere. And without that, there’s no chance of any non-Earth settlement being able to sustain a healthy human society and culture long-term.

I'm unconvinced that pulling back from space programs will make Earth's ecosystem thrive.

A Mars colony (edit: or space station) owned by a private company will be a corporate prison, the inhabitants are 100% dependent on that company - who would voluntarily put their lives into the hands of the whims of some narcissistic hoarder with no empathy or regard for workers?

Agreed. That would be a super-weird concept, like a country owned by a private corporation.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I definitely agree with you, however, I think needing to become self sustaining on earth is a goal that would be well served by trying to design a self sufficient system for mars.

Earth is big enough that it's really easy to forget we're all in the same fish bowl. Entire cities can flush their shit down the river and as far as they are concerned, nothing bad ever happens to them. The scale of earth makes us blind to the problems our actions and methods cause. The ecosystems also do quite a bit to protect us from our own actions

You can't ignore externalities in a space colony. Everything must be accounted for. That is what makes it so difficult to design for. Any small amount of waste will still accumulate over time and eventually becomes a problem.

The tighter scope and strict requirements of a space colony would make it easier to actually objectively measure how sustainable it is. You would know exactly how much external inputs you are delivering each year. We can then take the lessons and technologies that are absolutely required in a space settlement and use them to inform how to better be sustainable on earth. For example, solar cells used to only really be used on satellites, not because they were great on satellites, but because they were pretty much the only option that could stay operational for years. Now PV power generation is helping countries all over the world become a little more sustainable. The harsh requirements of space make us better at problem solving.

I totally agree that earth is our only option for species survival though. Anyone selling Mars as a "backup" for humanity is either delusional or a con man. I think developing the capability to keep a settlement on Mars is a worthwhile endeavor, but there is no way for humanity to thrive there. Any large scale catastrophe on earth will still be more survivable in select pockets on earth than anywhere on Mars.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago

Launch Billionaires into deep space without supplies

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago

Men will do anything other than go to therapy.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago (2 children)

D) Move manufacturing and other dirty processes off planet and live here.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

Tyrell Corporation.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (2 children)

If we can do B, A doesn't provide many benefits.

A 1km diameter, 30km cylinder would provide enough area to feed ~140k people. 95km^2 of space.

That is assuming no imported food etc, based on 7000m^2 per person which is almost 2 acres each.

140k people is a small city.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago

Yes.

Seriously, we should be doing both as long term space habitats can serve as a way to reduce the cost of moving cargo around.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago

We should be exploring both options, exploration can often lead to unexpected discoveries and technological advancement.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago

How about we focus our efforts on unshittifying Earth first, eh?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Why not both?

I'm guessing B will happen first, just because we have so much more control of the environment, but we're still so far away from either one... Maybe I'll get to see the early stages sometime in my life.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Why? Nice planet we've got here, we could focus on preventing it becoming inhabitable due to climate change instead.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago

No matter what you do the Earth won't stay habitable forever. So we either learn to expand out into space as a species or face extinction eventually. Not to mention putting all our eggs in one basket is a terrible idea. Any cosmological event could wipe out the Earth at any time. The question is are you okay with our entire species going with it?

There needs to be a backup, ideally multiple.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Space colonies. That way they can be dropped to earth to start colony independence wars.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

Europa tea party!!!!!!!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago

Porque no los dos?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Is this sub-populated mostly by Facebook people? Some of the answers really feel like it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago

All these answers are so killjoy and boring. Like yeah we should strive to make our own planet better, but why not also do this? Building habitats on other worlds doesn't prevent us from caring for this one.

Plus maybe trying to make a liveable environment in space can give us new insights in preserving the one at home. Like how solar panels have come from space exploration.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

All of the above. But start with cleaning up this planet. Build better / more sustainable and more diverse communities and energy production. Build arcologies in the arctic, deserts, oceans. Those are good β€œpractice” for building the same off planet.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago
[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

A quote attributed to a few people, Heinlein and Pournelle for two, "If you can get your ship into orbit, you're halfway to anywhere." Both space and planets have shared and their separate problems to solve. In my head I prefer the image of most populations moving into habitats in space, customized to their preferences, with smaller settlements on various bodies for their own purposes. In my realistic view I don't see us getting that far before we get bogged down with all the problems we've created on this planet. The window to a permanent space civilization might have already shut. A sad thing, as a 70s kid I grew up convinced we were full speed into some version of what scifi had sold to me.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

Fix our own planet first

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

Actually, both.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

After reading A City on Mars by Kelly and Zach Weinersmith I think a O'Neill Cylinder spinning spaceship for artificial gravity type is more achievable than planarity colonisation.

But the main point of the book, and I am fairly convinced of the more I think about it, is that it is a lot of effort and risk for not a lot of gain and we are entirely unprepared for space colonisation.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I don’t think space habitats any significant distance from Earth will be possible. Mitigating the increased radiation will be tough enough just trying to get to Mars, much less trying to stay in space out that far. At least on Mars we can hang out in old lava tubes or something.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

i think you underestimate human ingenuity and the time frames involved.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

Neither. There's plenty of room and resources here on Earth. I think it's fine to do space exploration and even have research bases on moons and other planets, but I just don't see the imperative for colonization.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago
[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

How to survive in space: Develop ways to survive in space only first. Once you manage that all the other problems are trivial compared and you don't have a single point of failure (aka our planet) anymore. Isn't that obvious?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Until we are able to travel way faster than what we can do now, I think it’s more feasible to build in space. Lots of implications for long term effects on human bodies though. Most ideal is a wormhole to an identical planet to earth so humans won’t need to adapt.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Genetically modify ourselves so that we can live both in zero gravity (and maybe survive short exposure to vacuum) and on other planets.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

Both! All three!

load more comments
view more: next β€Ί