this post was submitted on 08 Jun 2025
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I was jist following orders (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 days ago

I mean we're talking about the US here which explicitly reserves the right to invade the Netherlands if any of their soldiers end up in The Hague for any reason.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

The National Guard of this country has murdered American citizens on numerous occasions in our country's history without a peep about prosecution later on from anybody. Don't expect it to change this time. And really don't expect them not to fire. These Weekend Warriors love the idea of killing Americans. It's what they dream of.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 days ago

Nazis are Nazis. They knew what they were doing from the get go. They were just too cowardly to say it out loud.

Punch Nazis. Or they will punch you.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The only reason such a rationalization was ever brought forward is because they were brought to face judgement by a group of powers seeking to enact some form of justice for the atrocities committed.

IOW, “just following orders” will never be a defense offered if there’s nobody to put them on trial.

It’s a huge assumption that there will be anyone to put those kind of people on trial in the US and dispense any meaningful justice at this point. Current dems won’t do anything. Current judges can’t seem to pass sentences that stick.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Won’t or can’t. The dems are minorities in all branches. A bit late to be beating the blame game on the dems after they were voted out of literally all power.

And the only judges who are doing anything right now is a trump and bush appointed judges in which are just facing appeals. So that’s not on the dems either.

You really need to stop blaming dems for all the reps doing bad things.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I didn’t blame the dems for doing bad things. I blame the dems for doing nothing, or doing ineffective things. Especially when they did have the opportunity to do so.

Yeah, they can’t do anything now because they didn’t take advantage when they could.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

So then by your own admission you do know they can’t do anything now. So why are you blaming the dems now? It can’t just be always the dems at fault even when the reps are clearly in the wrong here. It’s just a waste of energy and distraction at most from dealing with what is going on right now.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I don’t need to re-explain what I said.

And I disagree with your forcing a binary choice to remove attention from the dems. I can be pissed at the dems/DNC for helping, or at least not more forcefully opposing, the events that lead us to this point AND deal with “what is going on right now.”

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

You’re not looking for solutions. You’re looking to blame and be helpless and a perpetual victim. That’s your choice and I won’t waste more of my own time on such a person who chooses to spend their time in such a way.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Keep going please. Make more shit up about me to satisfy yourself.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 days ago (1 children)

You also jump up your own asshole cuz you enjoy the smell of it

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

Huh. I’ve never been the subject of someone’s public kink before. You do you.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago

I will NOT thank you for your service, I will resist you and shame you to my final breath for letting the allure of guns and patriotism lead you into at best complacency towards fascism.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

This excuse didn't work in the Nuremberg trials so....

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago

Yes that's literally what OP's pic is saying

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Wait until he finds out his holy document was concocted by genocidal enslavers... Functioning as intended.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

Presidential Executive Orders

[–] [email protected] 112 points 1 week ago (2 children)

While true, most of them are likely one paycheck away from having their family living in the streets. That's a powerful deterrent against refusing orders that the US has somehow mastered. That too.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 1 week ago

The same applies to most gang members.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 week ago (2 children)

“I was just living paycheck to paycheck” won’t be a valid defense either :P

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Of course, but most people will prioritize their own family members over others. It's an explanation, not an argument against being moral.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

My go-to in nuance situations that require clarification is "explanation is not justification"

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 1 week ago

However it was deemed a valid defence in the trials of US war criminals in the Vietnam War.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 week ago (11 children)

The US literally sanctioned the ICC judges. There's not gonna be a Nuremberg trial for them lol.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 week ago

Like the US justice system gives a flying fuck about precedence anymore.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 week ago (2 children)

That's only partially true.

For starters, nearly everything German soldiers did was legal under German law.

Side tangent: GDR soldiers who killed civilians trying to flee the country could easily be prosecuted after reunification because this was explicitly illegal under GDR law.

It's harder to prosecute "legal" crimes. It requires establishing there are "natural laws" which stand above any law humans put in place. For instance, slaughtering civilians is one such violation of "natural law". It's more complex but that's the rough summary.

Besides, most German soldiers simply became prisoners of war and faced little to no legal consequences. The Nuremberg trials were mostly for those who gave the illegal order - no one has time for millions of legal cases.

I have little to no clue about US law but as far as I can tell, executive orders are legal until deemed illegal by a court. The order would therefore have to violate "natural law" - not the constitution - or be so obviously illegal beyond any reasonable doubt to allow for prosecution of those who follow it. Both of those are a very high bar to clear.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I have faith that there are many people in the military chain of command who are smart enough to ‘interpret’ orders and posture deployments in a way that does not escalate and lead to killing.

ICE and the civilian LEO have less discipline and the risk of escalation is immensely higher. I’d take the National Guard who follows orders and is subject to court martial over the jack boots any day of the week.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The British soldiers at the Boston Massacre and Nazi war criminals of the Holocaust had their day in court.

That's what due process is. Everyone -everyone - enemy or not, gets a trial. That's how it should be, that's how it needs to be, or there is no justice.

That's why "expedited removal" is nothing but fascism. No due process, no justice at all.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

It is important to add that even though the US has committed atrocities, for decades, from Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos through Iraq, Afghanistan, and Gaza; illegal invasion, torture, genocide, war crimes; nothing meaningful ever came from it. There has never been Nuremberg trial equivalent for the United States, and there never will be. Every single president since Eisenhower, every single one, no exceptions, has been a war criminal by the standards of the Nuremberg trials and the Tokyo tribunal, and not one of them ever spent even a day in court for it.

There are no consequences for war crimes committed by Americans. None. Aside from 9/11, but the ones who died, the ones who suffered, were not the ones responsible for the atrocities committed by the US. So sure, "just following orders" isn't a valid defense, but you won't need one anyway.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Skipped right over killing 25% of the Korean population that just happened to be so unlucky to live in the northern half at the time, as is tradition. No one remembers the Korean war for some reason.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I remember, but pragmatism wins over factual correctness sometimes. If you're trying to convince someone that American imperialism is bad, and they get a whiff of what they might misconstrue as being pro North Korean, they dismiss what you're saying outright.

I also didn't mention Indonesia, Timor, Guatemala, Chile, Cuba, and so and and so forth. And that's not because I don't think America is responsible for truly gut wrenching things there (I think Guatemala is especially egregious), but because people aren't as familiar with these as they are with the Vietnam War and the war on terror. And the latter two have the added benefit that it's generally agreed upon by liberals (after the fact, of course, never during) that they were a bad thing.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 days ago

Understandable

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago

It's known as the forgotten war for a reason, mostly because it wasn't as big as WW2 and not as much of a clusterfuck as Vietnam. For all the shit that happened it basically just returned to status quo, honestly out of all the non Korean participants it was most notable for the Chinese. For UN forces it was a test run and for the Soviets it was a decent area to test new post WW2 tech and dump some surplus.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Remember that in reality the US saved the top Nazis and made them head of NATO.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

What? Really? Source/subject?

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