this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2025
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How to say Marx was right without saying "Marx was right".

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 hours ago

Has been for ages. It's now question of how bad, and we are still making it worse.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (2 children)

Fuck that. It's never lost, it's just that we are constantly heading towards worse outcomes.

If we as humanity start taking it seriously tomorrow, it would still be a victory over only starting in a decade.

It's not lost, it's just getting worse, and that should make people want to fight.

saying that the fight is lost is just creating more disengagement and hopelessness.

I like the saying "The best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago, the second best is today." Because it is almost universally true about any long term goal.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 49 minutes ago (1 children)

You are using the broadest possible definition of "lost."

Lost as in no more human civilization. It doesn't matter when you start doing stuff, that future is coming. We could maybe slow it at this point, but not much else and even that is up for debate with all the tipping points being reached. They will have a far greater effect on the climate than anything that we do now.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 36 minutes ago

Human civilization is bound to die at some point. If we give up now it will just happen faster and with more suffering. If we fight we will still improve things, maybe not everything will be okay, but when has it ever been?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

But we're not starting tomorrow. It's not that we're clueless, we know what to do and why, but we don't.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 37 minutes ago

We are light years a head of where we were a century ago. And I hope in a few decades it will be true about today.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

We have started to reduce how much worse we make it, and a fair bit of progress has been made there in some countries, UK carbon emissions are less than half what they were per capita several decades ago.

When I was young we had a fireplace and would often burn coal in winter. Now I have a heat pump to warm my entire house by extracting thermal energy from the atmosphere.

[–] NeedMoreLimes 10 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I think he's right, but he's also a real asshole and lives in a mansion in Vancouver and likely creates more environmental damage than the average human

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

If I had mansion money I would buy land to live in a self built mud hut.

[–] FreshParsnip -2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Let climate change end humanity, we fucking deserve it

[–] asg101 1 points 1 hour ago

The problem is humanity is taking most of the other species in the world with it. Just the methane/permafrost feedback loop out of dozens of feedback loops will usher in the level of warming and ensuing extinctions experienced during the Permian/Triassic die off.

The ruling elite are incinerating all of us for profit, and they don't give a shit.

[–] ILikeBoobies 8 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Less people accept climate change in Canada today than 20 years ago. If we couldn’t do anything about it then, why would now be different?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 15 hours ago

That's how I feel, like it might not be too late to do something but people just don't care. And if we don't do this together its pointless.

[–] CircaV 48 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Canada (and the world) will burn. You think migrants are a problem now? Wait until millions of people have no choice but to go north and the water wars start.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

O damn, almost forgot about the water wars. Those were brutal. Before those people genuinely believed there was nothing bigger than a World War. The fools. Like if you're still here in 2125.

[–] rabber 4 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

The water wars will start far sooner than that

[–] [email protected] 1 points 46 minutes ago

Pakistan and India, Egypt and Ethiopia. Various states in the southwest are looking to pop off when the civil war starts up. Water wars are starting NOW.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 17 hours ago

the spice must flow!

[–] [email protected] 13 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

Saying we have failed is the easiest thing to say.

[–] phoenixz 13 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

Because its true?

Barely anything had been done these past decades and the result is that boat loads of people now believe conspiracy crap over the actual truth that climate change will milk us all

I fully expect that even less will be done in the next years so yeah, were screwed

[–] [email protected] 8 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Fight for climate change is not lost, it's still actively being fought by scientists, entrepreneurs, content creators, journalists and activists all over the planet.

Oil companies like this narrative of lost. It was always, don't worry we still have time until now when it's leaning towards "whoopsie too late". It's not too late, we are not all going to die because of climate change.

Right now climate change is on track to be horrible for large parts of the world but there's plenty more we can fuck up beyond that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 19 hours ago

There is also the potential for climate solutions. We have been driving things in one direction by pumping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. There are ways to do the opposite rapidly, just not as easy. Solar/Wind/Nuclear powered carbon sequestration and ocean fertilization are possible if all else is lost.

Happy to discuss realistic impactful solutions rather than just cycling doomerism with anyone interested.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 19 hours ago

I suggest actually doing something about it then. Direct your frustration towards something productive. Take the risk because if we don't then no one will.

Here's why your comment is horseshit:

The cost of solar photovoltaic (PV) technology dropped by 81% since 2009, and wind and battery costs have also plummeted. By 2017, most new power-generating capacity added worldwide came from renewables, not fossil fuels.

A comprehensive review of 1,500 climate policy measures across 41 countries found 63 cases of successful policies, each leading to an average emission reduction of 19%. The most effective policies combined tax and price incentives with regulations and subsidies.

Although global greenhouse gas emissions reached record highs in the 2010s, the rate of growth has slowed, in part due to climate policies and the adoption of cleaner technologies.

The Montreal Protocol (1987) successfully phased out ozone-depleting substances, demonstrating that coordinated global action can work. This agreement also had climate benefits, as many of the banned substances were potent greenhouse gases.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 19 hours ago

Doesn't mean it's not the truth.

[–] [email protected] 170 points 1 day ago (19 children)

Let's be clear about something; climate scientists almost universally agree that there is no such thing as "winning" or "losing" the fight against climate change (Suzuki, for the record, is a zoologist, not a climate scientist). This isn't a game, there's no referee, and no one gets a trophy at the end.

The battle against climate change is about mitigating harm. The worse we do, the more harm there will be. But there is never a point where it is "too late". The car is going to crash, but the sooner you hit the brakes, the less damaging the impact will be. Everything we do to push the needle will save lives. There is never a point where we get to throw up our hands and succumb to the comforting fantasy that it's "too late" to change anything.

I have a lot of respect for Suzuki, and I don't blame him for feeling defeated with everything that's happening, but spreading this kind of message is, dangerous, damaging, and flies entirely in the face of the science.

[–] Tiger666 9 points 22 hours ago

Suzuki is and always was just a mouthpiece for corporate masters. Controlled opposition to steer public opinion. He is not and never will be a climatologist. His message is one of defeat because his backers want us to give up.

Suzuki can kiss my white ass.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

"Too late" implies civilization collapse to me. That's pretty much guaranteed once the warming we're locked into happens.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Back before George W Bush directed NASA to call it climate change, it was called global warming, and you can definitely win against that - by stopping the earth from warming. That's unwinnable due to feedback loops that have now begun.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago

Does not remotely address my point. We can always - always - work to reduce the harm caused by climate change.

The point where the harm could be reduced to "none" is decades past us. If that's the point where you give up then fuck off. Climate change is actively causing harm as we speak, and it is still worth fighting. We can still make life better for ourselves and future generations.

The notion that climate change is some kind of runaway engine that will continue amok without any further human input is nonsense. Yes, I'm aware of ideas like "Permafrost methane bombs" and I've also done enough research to be aware that only a small fringe of climate scientists actually support those ideas. They're flashy and exciting and get big press, but they are not widely accepted climate science.

What climate science shows is that the climate actually responds faster to reductions in CO2 than our older models predicted. That means that debacarbonization can have real and meaningful positive impacts beyond what we previously thought possible.

There is real damage already done, and there is damage that we cannot undo, but there is never a point where the problem goes beyond our input. The climate fight is always worth fighting.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 21 hours ago

I try to stay postive but we're slowly burning and yet politics has never been so aggressively stupid about this. And the warlords dictating or culture too. I don't want this.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 day ago (1 children)

the focus on politics, economics, and law are all destined to fail because they are based around humans. They’re designed to guide humans, but we’ve left out the foundation of our existence, which is nature, clean air, pure water, rich soil, food, and sunlight. That’s the foundation of the way we live and, when we construct legal, economic and political systems, they have to be built around protecting those very things, but they’re not.

Powerful truth!

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[–] rabber 5 points 19 hours ago

David Suzuki sucks. Seen him at restaurants here in town before. Treats waitresses like shit.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 day ago

@asg101 I agree we've lost the opportunity and will have to "hunker down". But hearing it from David Suzuki is...hard.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Giving up is exactly where the "too late" come from, quitter shouldn't be leading climate advocacy.

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