this post was submitted on 19 Jan 2025
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Year of the ~~Linux Desktop~~ Fediverse!

Side note, DAE find calling them "normies" kinda icky? It's like straight outta 4chan

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[–] [email protected] 138 points 1 week ago (7 children)

The advantages most of us see in the Fediverse (lack of corporate control, low algorithm interference) are seen by most normal users as either of little importance, or actively detrimental. The Fediverse requires you engage with it to cultivate a feed that gives you what you're interested in. But the people fleeing to Rednote want a strong algorithm that feeds them what they want, and they don't mind influence games being played by the algorithm in exchange for this convenience.

[–] [email protected] 89 points 1 week ago (9 children)

Personally, I think there's room in the Fediverse for an app with a "strong algorithm" provided it's completely open ofc.

My biggest issue with algorithms isn't the fact they exist, but that they're proprietary black boxes so no one truly knows how it's being manipulated

[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

We should be able to select different fully open source algorithms from a drop down menu, and load custom ones from fediversealgorithmmenuwithdescriptions dot org, including "no algorithm".

I assume that's like a billion hours of work, but, goals.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 week ago (2 children)

"No algorithm" would load nothing at all. Everything is an "algorithm," including listing all posts in chronological order.

Wanting "no algorithm" is like wanting food with "no chemicals" in it and not realizing that carbs, fats, proteins, etc. are "chemicals."

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

But when someone says they want no chemicals in their food, you know exactly what they mean. This is just being a bit pedantic, I think.

[–] PeriodicallyPedantic 12 points 1 week ago

Did someone call for me???

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Noble gases are chemicals too, damn it!

The only thing that isn't "chemicals" is literally just vacuum.

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[–] PeriodicallyPedantic 9 points 1 week ago (5 children)

When you sort your feed by hot vs top vs new, that's already what you're doing kinda.

But the platform has to have the data to support the algorithm, so you can't just "load in" whatever algorithm you want. Besides, that sounds like a security nightmare for the platform lol

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Remember when Musk took over Twitter and "open sourced" the algorithm, although it was impossible to reconstruct anything from what was given, and contained clear signs of being edited and incriminating details suggesting content categorization and prioritization?

What I really want to see is Facebook's algorithm, because it seems to just produce a neverending stream of alt-right bullshit.

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[–] Kichae 17 points 1 week ago (12 children)

Recommendation engines aren't the biggest issue. People will figure out how to fins what they want, and be generally happy with that, if looking is easy enough.

The big issue is that "join the fediverse" is a really, really shitty and incomplete recommendation. It's like "join the blogosphere!"

And "join Mastodon" or "join Lemmy" is bad, too. It's like asking them to "join Joomla".

You need to point people to the specific website they should join, and that website has to already have what they're looking for. People aren't interested in building something.

They just want to consume.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

Funny enough, that's also the reason that democracy is always in the brink of collapse.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Don't get too high and mighty, you're doom scrolling like everyone else.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It would be nice if the Fediverse (or some apps like Sync) had a strong algorithm that you can choose to activate if you like, once you install the app.

And could pick from different algorithms, one big barrier to entry for new users is the UX just sucks compared to platforms they're used to.

Eg. Default lemmy Web UI is TERRIBLE

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago

I actually enjoy not having a strong algorithm here. This way I can spend as little as possible on my only social media app that I use.

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[–] PeriodicallyPedantic 75 points 1 week ago

A lot of people are going to rednote as a show of protest:

  • these people have had their data mined since they were babies, they've been taught by the market since birth that their data isn't something they should value
  • then they're told that it's bad that these other people can access their data, with no explanation as to why it's any different
  • while at the same time being told that it's totally fine for the folks who are already mining your data to sell it to the people who shouldn't have your data

So they're basically saying "you're lying, and your explanation contradicts your previous behavior, so I'm gonna do the exact opposite of what you want"
Again because they don't actually care about their data

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Unfortunately, Fediverse apps still have a lot of UX issues compared to their mainstream alternatives. Those will need to be smoothed over for mainstream adoption to take root.

They’re attractive to the tech inclined who are comfortable working around what, to them, is minor clunkiness. Mainstream users have shorter attention spans and are more likely to move on when there’s friction.

Far as the meme is concerned, the only Fediverse equivalent is Loops which is still in closed beta.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

UX issues

Easiest way to sum up Facebook

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Except Voyager app (or webapp) that shits ready for the masses

Feels 100% like the Apollo app for redit, plus blocked features of Apollo are free in voyager

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You're missing the important factor of the cultural zeitgeist

People who flocked to RedNote weren't just going there for an alternative to TikTok

They were specifically going there because the US government said "you can't go on the Chinese App!" so they said "Oh yeah? I'm gonna find an even MORE Chinese app to hang out at!"

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago

Then decades of sinophobic propaganda melted. It was amazing to watch.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Fediverse fanboys when they realise that their obscure and socially complex software isn't know by many people specially outside of the tech bubble, and that it's not the same experiences that they will get with known platforms:

edited Gru with an uncanny smile

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The obscurity and social complexity is the whole reason I'm here haha. My hope is that even if/when fedi apps become the standard, we'll still have ways to curate ourselves into small corners as that's just way nicer.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 week ago (10 children)

You're expecting Zoomers and Gen Alpha irreversibly addicted to short-form video content, which has resulted in an attention span that doesn't extend past 30 seconds, to READ?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

(Not all of us, please. I'm 18 - and I love to read - and that's how I'm even a media and middleware loving nerdy programmer, and that's how I'm here!!! I'm not even from a developed nation...)

(...I've been recommended by YouTube, videos of gen-alpha peeps talking about and using GNU-Linux OSs passionately, even!)

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[–] PeriodicallyPedantic 7 points 1 week ago
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[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Have you seen what acquiring lots of mainstream users does to a platform?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago

It allows it to have a large range of content covering a variety of interests?

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 week ago (9 children)

Best thing that happened recently. Wonderful wonderful chaos, when the best plans of authoritarian politicians go awry. And I mean both Chinese and American politicians.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Guess they're China's problem now.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Even worse; they flood the internet with „china actually kinda based“ posts. Orientalism is back and nothing changed

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (3 children)

In art history, literature and cultural studies, Orientalism is the imitation or depiction of aspects of the Eastern world (or "Orient") by writers, designers, and artists from the Western world. Orientalist painting, particularly of the Middle East,[1] was one of the many specialties of 19th-century academic art, and Western literature was influenced by a similar interest in Oriental themes.

Critical studies

Edward Said

In his book Orientalism (1978), cultural critic Edward Said redefines the term Orientalism to describe a pervasive Western tradition—academic and artistic—of prejudiced outsider-interpretations of the Eastern world, which was shaped by the cultural attitudes of European imperialism in the 18th and 19th centuries.[20] The thesis of Orientalism develops Antonio Gramsci's theory of cultural hegemony, and Michel Foucault's theorisation of discourse (the knowledge-power relation) to criticise the scholarly tradition of Oriental studies. Said criticised contemporary scholars who perpetuated the tradition of outsider-interpretation of Arabo-Islamic cultures, especially Bernard Lewis and Fouad Ajami.[21][22] Furthermore, Said said that "The idea of representation is a theatrical one: the Orient is the stage on which the whole East is confined",[23] and that the subject of learned Orientalists "is not so much the East itself as the East made known, and therefore less fearsome, to the Western reading public".[24]

In the academy, the book Orientalism (1978) became a foundational text of post-colonial cultural studies.[22] The analyses in Said's works are of Orientalism in European literature, especially French literature, and do not analyse visual art and Orientalist painting. In that vein, the art historian Linda Nochlin applied Said's methods of critical analysis to art, "with uneven results".[25] Other scholars see Orientalist paintings as depicting a myth and a fantasy that did not often correlate with reality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism

Yeah i dont think that people saying "China is kinda based" are trying to appropriate chinese culture from the perspective of a culturally and racially superior western hegemonial empire. Quite to the contrary actually.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 week ago (5 children)

I don't think there are any experiences on the fediverse right now that are comparable to TikTok. Loops is still beta, isn't it? If Reddit was banned and people clocked to some Chinese forum I could agree with this meme.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago (3 children)

You mean they signed up for an app that actually works and generates a feed for you vs one that doesn't do either of those things?

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I think that it was less: let's find alternatives, than it was fuck you government TikTok isn't Chinese enough. It was a direct answer to the government telling us which social media apps we were allowed to use. Also, 100% avoidable if they'd passed data protection instead. It really felt like the government enforcing private interests on its citizens.

Americans typically don't like the government telling us what to do. It's all fine if Facebook buys all the competition, but it's another thing when the government makes the competition illegal because they won't sell to zuck or musk.

Honestly, Redbook was sort of neat. I doubt it has much staying power as it was really just a protest, but it was sort of a historical feeling moment.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I like the fediverse because there's no algorithm feeding me crap.

But from all the memes I've seen about people's "Chinese spy" perfecting their feed. I guess normal people love the algorithm

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What is the one on the left anyway?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Fedivserse logo, thats lemmy, mastodon, sharkey, mbin and all the other decentralised social medias.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Red note just added a feature that lets you translate any comment to English (or presumably the local language of your phone number) . Online reviews and Airbnb have done this for a long time. It's a simple yet amazing feature, one that will really remove barriers to appreciating different cultures. I would love to have it here so that everyone can speak their native tongue and others could appreciate it. I always want to know what the French and German communities are up to (those are the most common other languages I see).

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Perfect meme to describe what's happening. Yes, fedi has some UX issues and is not very beginner friendly.

But also, people have gotten so used to being spoonfed content from an algorithm that tells them what they want to see that they can't handle the prospect of "build your own algorithm"

Corpo-curated-content is a hard drug and most people don't realize that they have an addiction.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

power users/businesses: "you can't go VIRAL on mastodon"

Regular Users: "yOu HaVe To PiCk A sErVeR?????"

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Is the cute little monster thing eating powdered sugar with his whole face?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Is this old? Is this what old feels like?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah, people not recognizing Elmo is a special kind of pain.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago

Yep that's addiction it's hard to recover.

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