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Hot take:
If you try dating with this concept of a relationship, it probably won’t go well for at least one of the parties involved.
Yup. And I think that once again, a large part of this is the influence of the 'manosphere' putting bullshit into their heads.
There's been a couple of occasions having this conversation where people respond to me and say they don't listen to Jordan Peterson or whatever but they're still lonely. But then they'll say something like "I need marriage and children to be a complete human being or else I'm a failure in life. And I've been robbed." I mean, what the fuck. They're just kids or young adults.
So these guys are attempting relationships with all of this heavy shit about marriage and children and status and ownership in mind and chasing people away. I would run away too if someone started making wedding plans on the second date. And they're not looking for a person that they get along with and can spend the rest of their life with, they're looking for someone who can make their babies for them. Ewww.
Honestly sometimes this 'manosphere' shit is a little bit like purity culture. And it sometimes reminds me of some of the more cultish churches I've come across that push 18 year old kids who are dating into early marriage or else they're "living in sin". In fact I'm pretty sure that there's a religious right wing agenda behind it.
These kids need to stop clutching their pearls and acting like religious fanatics and just have some fucking fun. Go into things with zero expectations. Have one night stands. Enjoy their youth. And if in the process of that, they meet 'the one', then that's a bonus. They don't need to be tied down with kids and bills to pay by the time they're 21 just to be seen as any more of a 'man'. In fact that would just be sad.
Feels right
... do people even know what a Bel Air is anymore? I think it was completely displaced by Rickrolling.
That expectation applies to everyone.
What kind of person do you think are attracted to dangerous assholes? Likely someone that cares more about the status than the actual person that is their partner.
I never dated as a young woman (GenX) we just hung out in mixed sex environments, did things in mixed sex groups, hung out with people who knew other people, so we had social connections that led to hookups that sometimes led to relationships.
My kids seemed to do much less of that. It seems so hard to navigate this commodified dating scene. My penultimate child was actually asking me to be a matchmaker for her but she has finally found love or at least infatuation with a gorgeous woman. But found her by hanging out with people and going places!
I really, truly believe that hanging out with people is the missing activity. And it helps you in more ways than just romantically, friends are good to have.
This is similar for me a male and total nerd crowd to but yeah met people by hanging out or being parts of stuff. Met my wife at a sci fi con.
Same. I did “dates” several times and it was just artificial and uncomfortable, and cos I’m ASD it didn’t exactly put me on my best foot. Being in a relationship is about being able to be yourself with somebody (and vice versa), and nothing about that whole scene seems designed to help you find that.
“This whole enterprise needs a lot of grace,” he says, “and a lot of forgiveness and a lot of accepting people in good faith.”
You know what all of it really needs? not just the dating, but all the relationships we have with each other - work, casual, personal, familial, especially political.
Patience.
You know what people at large seem to be lacking?
Patience.
Patience requires time, which means people need to feel as though they aren't constantly overworked.
So, yes, people need to feel that way, absolutely. But... people can't expect that some magical event is going to come along and produce patience within them, or make the world stop so that they can have time to develop some patience... if you're waiting for something external, you will always be waiting.
I disagree with you, actually - patience doesn't require time, patience makes time - patience is what happens when you make time for someone else. For patience to exist, you have to stop what you're doing, what is important for you in that moment, and focus on what is important for someone else... and I'm not suggesting that's an easy thing to do, right?
Patience is a practice. It's not something that you have, it's something that you do, and you become capable of doing it by practicing (and, you know, failing, a lot).
I like Thich Nhat Hanh's book Peace Is Every Step. He describes this better than I can:
We can smile, breathe, walk, and eat our meals in a way that allows us to be in touch with the abundance of happiness that is available. We are very good at preparing to live, but not very good at living. We know how to sacrifice ten years for a diploma, and we are willing to work very hard to get a job, a car, a house, and so on. But we have difficulty remembering that we are alive in the present moment, the only moment there is for us to be alive. Every breath we take, every step we make, can be filled with peace, joy, and serenity. We need only to be awake, alive in the present moment.
“You can see a little bit of risk aversion among young men,” Reeves says. “Partly because they are largely, and I think incorrectly, worried about the risks that are going to come from putting yourself out there.”
OK, what are the risks men say they are worried about that you reject so soundly?
TLDR: Don't worry, just put yourself out there bro. Just get out of your comfort zone, bro.
You apparently skipped over all the words before and after what you quoted:
With many women no longer willing to accept ghosting, noncommitment, and harassment, men may be forced to change their ways or face being shut out of the dating pool. By and large, Reeves says the men he has spoken to understand this; they know what not to do — “don’t mansplain, don’t be toxic, don’t be a predator … don’t be a creep” — but they’re at a loss for what is acceptable when trying to date.
“You can see a little bit of risk aversion among young men,” Reeves says. “Partly because they are largely, and I think incorrectly, worried about the risks that are going to come from putting yourself out there.”
All social interaction carries some form of risk, a potential for rejection, but the alternatives to dating available in the modern dating landscape make putting yourself out there even less appealing.
It goes on
Sorry, which of those are the risks?
The implication of the article is that men fear a woman will have second thoughts and cry rape after the consensual sex is done.
But while this is a risk—albeit unlikely—it's a smaller risk when compared to actual rape.
What a lot of people are not acknowledging is that men have a social expectation of expressing interest first, and in many ways, that is a privilege.
Feels like a burden tbh
To achieve stuff you most of the time need to get out of your comfort zone. But it on parents to slowly teach their children to overcome fears. It gets much more difficult when you are grown up.
I'm not a young man so I can't really talk about the youths, but from what I've heard and seen a lot of people are just bad at dating. Garbage profiles, poor message writing, poor in-person behavior.
I don't really like this article's "both sides are equally bad" subtext. Well, text. It's kind of just there in the text.