this post was submitted on 24 Apr 2025
205 points (99.5% liked)

Canada

9558 readers
1265 users here now

What's going on Canada?



Related Communities


🍁 Meta


🗺️ Provinces / Territories


🏙️ Cities / Local Communities

Sorted alphabetically by city name.


🏒 SportsHockey

Football (NFL): incomplete

Football (CFL): incomplete

Baseball

Basketball

Soccer


💻 Schools / Universities

Sorted by province, then by total full-time enrolment.


💵 Finance, Shopping, Sales


🗣️ Politics


🍁 Social / Culture


Rules

  1. Keep the original title when submitting an article. You can put your own commentary in the body of the post or in the comment section.

  2. Election Interference / Misinformation

Reminder that the rules for lemmy.ca also apply here. See the sidebar on the homepage: lemmy.ca


founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

The Canadian Association of Professional Employees (CAPE) is calling for public pension funds to divest from Tesla. To show solidarity with American workers facing attacks from Elon Musk and his so-called Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), the union says it’s time for the Canadian Public Sector Pension Investment Board (CPSIB) to dump its Tesla shares.

Despite holding no elected position in United States President Donald Trump’s administration, Musk and his DOGE are firing public servants with reckless abandon, placing the entire American federal public sector in jeopardy. Essential workers at the departments of education, health and human services, energy, veterans affairs and defense, as well as the Internal Revenue Service, the National Park Service, and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau have been summarily fired, furloughed, or pressured to accept dubious buyouts.

In response, CAPE, which represents more than 27,000 Canadian federal public servants, is leading the charge to pull Canadian public pension investments from the controversial electric automobile maker.

all 13 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] wise_pancake 29 points 18 hours ago (6 children)

Even if we forget about DOGE, can anyone tell me why the Tesla stock price is as high as it is? It's nonsensical.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

It’s because of the green energy credit swap scheme in the US, which has essentially been a taxpayer giveaway of 10s of billions to Tesla over the years. Tesla itself would have gone bankrupt multiple times over by now, if not for them being able to salvage their balance sheet by selling these credits.

The way it works involves other auto / oil and gas industry companies buying the credits from Tesla, in order to offset their own carbon emissions which otherwise would cost them significantly in terms of pollution fines (and maybe bad PR).

This way, Tesla gets the taxpayers’ house money for free, and can sell it off to these other companies so they can continue polluting just as they always have been. It’s the American neoliberal dream of unchecked corporate greed with a thin veneer of eco-responsible cover so that nobody really has to do anything to improve. Just don’t scratch beneath the surface if you actually give a shit about the environment. Sadly, many don’t.

Last point on this - yes, this means Elon Musk is the biggest welfare queen in America. He rips away any assistance for those who need it (to lower his tax bill) all while gobbling up billions in free subsidies from the government. It’s grotesque.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

Also selling Nvidia chips it acquired.

Though investor activism is a bad idea.

[–] ninthant 15 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

At the risk of seeming like a jerk, I’ll state the obvious: market prices are set by the intersection of supply and demand.

In theory the fundamental value of a share is the fractional ownership in that company. If the company is successful then shares will have value relating to dividends or if the company is sold, etc.

However in practice the supply and demand of these shares is not required to be rational. People can have irrational preferences for shares, hype men can sell wild fantasies about the future, and so forth.

Back to your your more specific question, the share prices of Tesla have been completely disconnected to the value of the company for quite some time now. This is not opinion, this is plain observation of the valuation of the company relative to its revenues or profits or growth potential.

What is opinion is why that valuation has been irrationally maintained for years. My opinion that Musk has done a successful job in cultivating a cult audience around him of financially-motivated hype men who join him in promoting the prices regardless of their actual value.

Musk and his cult manipulates the media, both mainstream and alternative, with lies and publicity stunts painting a false narrative of future potential. Self driving cars, robotaxis, AI nonsense, and much more.

The regulatory bodies who should be stopping this fraudulent behaviour have responded meekly in the past, and now in Musks home country have been largely dismantled. This further encourages the cultists to continue their cycle of hype, disconnected from reality.

In my opinion, I find it likely many investors are well aware that Tesla is a bubble valuation. However so long as the hype machine continues, Tesla share prices can be a speculative investment as long as you can sell to a “bigger fool” later. No one knows when the bubble will burst, so much like penny stocks or meme coins it can be a gamble worth taking for some.

Back to the article for a second. In no uncertain terms, pension funds or anything of the like should not be gambling their funds on this house of cards.

[–] wise_pancake 5 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

I agree with everything you said and you don’t sound like a jerk.

I'm baffled at who is buying this stick at these prices. I'd short it but if I shorted it when I thought it disconnected from reality if have lost a lot ofoney by now.

Edit: original version had a typo, I don’t feel OP was a jerk

[–] ninthant 4 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (2 children)

TL;DR: shorting can be an extremely dangerous proposition, tread carefully and warily.

An anecdote about shorting stocks: A close friend of mine heavily shorted RIM in early 2009 when the writing was on the wall about the success of Android and iPhone.

However the stock proceeded to double in the months following, eventually squeezing my friend substantially and generating a very significant loss.

So this person was right about the future value of RIM as a company, and was even right about the reasons — but still lost out big time.

Even in case where the stock prices don’t squeeze you out, the carrying costs can be significant and easily eat all of the profits if you get the timing wrong. Most people should never short a stock.

[–] wise_pancake 4 points 12 hours ago

That’s why I basically don’t short stocks. The possible amount of how much you can lose is unlimited, and as you said being wrong about the timing is also a killer.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Omg, shorting RIM in 2009 would have been really stupid even though yes, the writing was on the wall.

There was a lot of national interest in keeping RIM afloat because it was basically our (Canada's) first modern tech company to have wild success beyond our own borders. A lot of random people had very positive views of the company.

I didn't really see a huge dip in support for RIM in the media until around 2012 or so. That would have been a way better time to short. But as you say, most people should never short a stock – it isn't simple or easy to tell when to do it or when to stop.

[–] ninthant 3 points 12 hours ago

I mean especially in hindsight it absolutely was dumb, I can’t argue against that. And it was certainly a mistake to bet so much without having cover.

At the time I agreed with this person that their analysis of RIM as a dead company walking was correct. In fact I was likely partly responsible for their outlook (though not their reckless position).

As you say —the national interests and hope in RIM’s success kept the price at irrational levels. Much like I argued here that Tesla is staggeringly overvalued today… which is why I made the comparison in the context of someone wanting to short Tesla today. It doesn’t matter if you’re right, for shorts it also matters when you’re right.

[–] Lemmyoutofhere 8 points 14 hours ago

It’s based on absolutely nothing.

[–] streetfestival 12 points 17 hours ago

Idk, but I do know that about 45% of its revenue is US gov subsidies. This came up because Elmo was saying NPR (1% funded by US gov) should lose its funding

[–] [email protected] 2 points 16 hours ago

Tesla is a big part of S&P 500, so any pensions, mutual funds, hedge funds etc. that hold index funds include tesla automatically. that is why it is important for institutional investors to consciously divest from tesla.

besides that, it’s a meme stock popular with musk fans and twitter heads.