Technology
A nice place to discuss rumors, happenings, innovations, and challenges in the technology sphere. We also welcome discussions on the intersections of technology and society. If it’s technological news or discussion of technology, it probably belongs here.
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it seems a bit disingenuous to call these “data centers in space” or “super computers”.
30 terabytes of storage across 12 satellites? So 2.5 TB each and 744 tops (which is like, a modern mid range graphics card for a PC, the RX 9070 XT does 1557 tops for reference). Like that just sounds like they’re launching a powerful PC in to orbit. Like, that’s a lot of power for a satellite, for comparison the curiosity rover is using the same kind of CPU as a 2000 era imac G3, but it’s not a data center.
The idea of doing more processing of the data on the satellite rather than processing it on the ground is interesting and neat, but representing these as anything more than that is… weird.
due to cosmic radiation, computers in space run in triplicates…. so everything is times 3….
but yes, it’s a lie.
also, the definition of supercomputer is a bit muddy. my phone is a supercomputer by most standards (obsolete standards).
Judging by the fact these are launching on long march 20s. It’s probably not going beyond LEO, so it doesn’t need proper deep space hardening like the RAD750 or the like.
It’s probably closer to off the shelf parts like what’s used on the ISS.
So the "journalist" Wes Davis is a liar and the Verge is a slop factory run by idiots.
ok
12 of 2800 planned have been launched.
I have a server at home built from old parts and some refurbished drives with nearly as much storage as the currently launched satellites. 2800 satellites like this would come out to around 230 of my servers, or ~7PB.
A single 2U server with 12 drives, each with 24TB storage, can hold 288TB. It would take ~24 of those to get to 7PB, which is a lot of servers, but not so many that someone with quite a lot of savings couldn't afford it.
Also, the servers on the ground can be cooled by, idk, air if needed. Or water. Or I guess liquid nitrogen if you want. Point is there's an atmosphere for the heat to dissipate to, unlike space.
They've certainly had to come up with some way to effectively radiate the heat into space. The article doesn't mention it though. i presume it's one of the main reasons for networking so many machines together?
That’s still not very much compared to most data centers. Like, 7000 terabytes is a lot of storage for one person, but it barely even registers compared to most modern data centers.
Also, 2800 desktops networked together isn’t really a super computer or a data center.
such a network is interesting as a scientific tool for gathering and processing data, certainly, but not a data-center and not a super computer.
But being accurate with the headline makes it less click baity. 😏 Honestly, this article is scant on details.
Data centers don't usually have an "X-ray polarization detector for picking up brief cosmic phenomena." Like you said, it seems more like a scientific tool than an actual "data center."
Imagine the latency on a data center in space. Uplink/downlink every time your server gets an inferencing request? Lol.
I could see it being fine for longer running asynchronous requests, but that would be if the cost/benefit made any sense at all, and if the servers had any resources worth talking about.
Stellaris popup ass title lol
Hard reboots/power cycling are gonna be a real pain in the ass. I suspect that there's gonna be significant downtimes until they switch from Windows to Linux and then figure out their super space drivers. Considering the millions it costs to launch someone into space, the IT astronaut who has to unplug this and plug it back in is going to be the most expensive tech support/hour ever.
Which means either the United States has or will be doing this, and this offers humanity no comfort. Exponential feedback loops on a road to nowhere on tracks coming to an end. There is no reason to be hopeful. Every little discovery, every little innovation all goes to the military industrial complex of all countries just to slaughter poor people. China is a capitalist country, Russia is a capitalist country, Iran is a capitalist country, Israel is a capitalist country, the United States is a capitalist country, Europe is full of capitalist countries. No War but the Class War.
What could go wrong?
Literally everything
Nah, as long as it has Quantum and AI it’ll be fine
No blockchain to keep it tethered to the floor
We just keep inching closer and closer to Planetes instead of Star Trek
That is certainly a description...
On a routine debris collection run, Yuri Mihairokov finds a compass, the only keepsake of his deceased wife, and is rescued by Hachirota "Hachimaki" Hoshino. Pilot Fee Carmichael stops the terrorist plan by ramming the Toy Box into the satellite and knocking it off course, sacrificing the Toy Box in the process.
What terrorist plot? What does that have to do with the compass?
All I can say is that the Wiki article is not representative of the show or the manga.
I forgot that anime existed
The beginnings of the Matrioshka Brain
not even a little, but matrioshka brains are cool
Because electronics on the ground didn't have a big enough environmental footprint, let's emit co2 and pollutants to have some more in space? All just because checks notes no real useful reason?
It eliminates the need for a lot of back and forth communication if you need to calculate stuff in space. Maybe scanning satelite images for example. And it shaves off valuable seconds if you - say - want to launch something from orbit to Earth. Most air defense mechanisms are not all that effective against stuff that comes straight down at a high speed and the idea of orbital weapons has been circulating for a while now (if not realised without public knowledge).
Ah right, I momentarily forgot about the ruling class's passion for launching stuff that kills people.
Ty for the reminder, I guess this idea of computers up there makes more sense now.
A solar-powered computer in space could recoup the CO2 cost of its launch fuel over its lifecycle (say 10 years?) when compared to coal-fueled electricity on the ground. After that it's free. Of course, you'd benefit more by filling up every available spot on the ground with solar arrays first! But you will eventually run out, or you might not want to do that.
i highly doubt 10 years is even remotely close to breaking even on a rocket launch.
Then you'd be surprised when you calculate the numbers!
A Falcon 9 delivers 13100kg to LEO and has 395,700kg propellant in 1st stage and 92,670kg in 2nd stage. Propellant in both is LOX/RP-1. RP-1 is basically long chains of CH2, so together they burn as:
3 O2 (3x32) + 2 CH2 (2x14) -> 2 CO2 (2x44) + 2 H2O (2x18)
Which is 2*44/(2*44+2*18) = 71% CO2. Meaning each launch makes (395700+92670)*.71 = 347 tons CO2 or 347/13.1 = 26.5 tons of CO2 per ton to orbit. A lot of it is burned in space, but I'm guessing the exhaust gases don't reach escape velocity so they all end up in the atmosphere anyway.
As for how much a compute satellite weighs, there is a wider range of possibilities, since they don't exist yet. This is China launching a test version of one, but it's not yet an artifact optimized for compute per watt per kilogram that we'd imagine a supercomputer to be.
I like to imagine something like a gaming PC strapped to a portable solar panel, a true cubesat :). On online shopping I currently see a fancy gaming PC at 12.7kg with 650W, and a 600W solar panel at 12.5kg. Strap them together with duct tape, and it's 1000/(12.7+12.5)*600 = 24kW of compute power per ton to orbit.
Something more real life is the ISS support truss. STS-119 delivered and installed S6 truss on the ISS. The 14,088kg payload included solar panels, batteries, and truss superstructure, supplying last 25% of station's power, or 30kW. Say, double that to strap server-grade hardware and cooling on it. That's 1000*30/(2*14088) = 1.1kW of compute per ton to orbit. A 500kg 1kW server is overkilling it, but we are being conservative here.
In my past post I've calculated that fossil fuel electricity on Earth makes 296g CO2 per 1 kilowatthour (using gas turbine at 60% efficiency burning 891kJ/mol methane into 1 mol CO2: 1kJ/s * 3600s / 0.6 eff / (891kJ/mol) * 44g/mol = 296g, as is the case where I live).
The CO2 payback time for a ton of duct taped gamer PC is 1000kg * 26.5kg CO2/kg / ( 24kW * 0.296kg/kW/hour) / (24*365) = 0.43 years. The CO2 payback time for a steel truss monstrosity is `1000kg * 26.5kg/kg / (1.1kW * 0.296kg/kW/hour) / (24*365) = 9.3 years.
Hey, I was pretty close!
Hm, that is unexpected. obviously that doesnt include the full manufacturing carbon cost of a rocket but it's probably close enough anyway.
I hope they don't assemble it 'The Verge Way'
"Professor Klaus, no! The results have not been confirmed!"
Skynet is Made in China. That figures.