every time i see e-bike discourse it's some of the most inane nonsense i've ever read, without fail the people who complain about e-bikes are doing the exact same thing drivers do to cyclists as a whole and somehow they are incapable of self-reflection to realize this.

small electric vehicles are good, being a dick to others on the streets is bad, it's not fucking rocket science. I don't give a singular fuck what you're riding in the bike path so long as it's small enough, quiet enough, and you go a reasonable speed.

Here in sweden it's become quite normal to have small electric moped cars (yes that's how we define them) use the wider bike paths when convenient and like.. it's a slight annoyance at worst, because they're work vehicles and the drivers know they're being a bit cheeky by using the bike path and thus they try very hard to be considerate.

E-bikes are perhaps the most important evolution cycling has made since the invention of the mountain bike because e-bikes get more people on bikes. And more people on bikes is an amazing thing.

I have to assume that mountain bikes make the list for the same reason, in which case I disagree - more people on mountain bikes made biking as a whole seem more like exercise than the great form of active transportation it always was. Then again, I'm open to hear what's supposed to be so great about them, I never rode one.

Don't get me wrong, mountain biking as a sport is great. Just going out and enjoying cycling as leisure is great as well. But I wouldn't call the invention of the mountain bike a great leap forward for cycling.

Ebikes are so insanely good for hauling groceries and city activities, even with a radius in the dozens of miles.

If you told me to bike up an 18% grade hill loaded down with 1-2 bags of heavy groceries, including stuff like milk, I would have told you I had to drive before I got my ebike, haha. I've put over 1,500 miles on my ebikes in under a year of ownership!

It is stupidly good at carrying stuff around. And it makes finding parking super easy, even at very popular areas such as beaches or pools.

I have a city ebike for errands, friends, and exploring, and a traditional mountain bike for downhill and singletrack. Both are so fun and really explore the breadth of what bikes can do.

Can't argue with the base premise. But here in Toronto it's the ebike wild West. Where no law is enforced.

Folks are ripping by in the bike lanes on 100lb electric mopeds with throttles and fold away pedals. I've seen bikes where the chain is rusted off but the "bike" happily zips past a grandma on dutch bike at 35kph.

Recently the transit commission finally banned ebikes on the subway because they were lighting trains on fire.

All I ask is that ebikes are limited to pedal assist and have a weight limit. But I think the genie is out of the bottle.

Anyway. I've got opinions.

Only semi-related but: The only people I've heard say e-bikes aren't real bikes are people who don't own bikes of either kind.

In Europe, ebikes just make pedalling slightly easier (or much easier depending on the level of assist you pick). Assist cuts off past a certain speed, normally around 25 km/h. They're bicycles designed for use in normal clothes so that you aren't sweaty on arrival even if you're going on top of a hill.

Apparently in the US, ebikes are anything with an electric motor and two wheels that doesn't go too fast, whether you pedal or not.

So it's two very different approaches. The US lumps what the EU separates in several categories into a single one. Here they would be ebikes, "sports ebikes" (fast, can't be ridden on general roads) and electric mopeds which are treated more or less the same as gas powered ones. Only the first properly qualify as bicycles.

I have an ebike with both pedal assist and throttle (that I could theoretically change the speed limiter setting above 35km/h). But in day to day riding, I frequently get passed by people riding thinner wheeled road bikes.

I don't want to have to shower every time after pedaling to work. I love being able to get two big bags of Costco groceries, strap them to my bike and not have to dread the ride home which is uphill. It's great and sure I'm not getting tons of exercise each time, it allows me to keep going out with it a lot more than I would a normal bike. This source also corroborates the trend that e-bike riders get more exercise than conventional cyclists due to riding more.

Honestly, even light electric motorcycles are a huge improvement over cars. My ebike-from-a-kit goes about 30mph and runs off a throttle. I generally ride on the road (city streets) and avoid sidewalks when at all possible. It's fun to ride, doesn't need gas, and is super-efficent when it comes to electricity (far more efficient than an electric car). I can park it way more easily than I can park a car, and it's great for short trips where taking the car is unjustified but it's too far to easily walk. 10/10 would recommend. Would also do whatever training/registering/licensing is required, but right now I live somewhere where regulations either don't exist or exist but aren't enforced.

What’s the point arguing what’s “real” cycling.

Are people out and about on a bike? Are they having fun? Are they avoiding driving heavy vehicles?

Then who cares.

They're real and they're spectacular