this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2025

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Mark Carney to launch bid for the Liberal leadership in Edmonton on Thursday (www.cbc.ca)

submitted 3 months ago by ValueSubtracted@startrek.website to c/canada

39 comments fedilink hide all child comments

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[–] wise_pancake 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

He's got my backing, I like the idea of more technocracy, and his financial background is what Canada needs in this moment.

Of course I need to hear now if his ideas, but I think Freeland would be putting the LPC into the same position of irrelevance that the OLP is now in post Wynne.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 9 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I think Freeland has a good head on her shoulders, and I hope she enters the race if only to hear her ideas, but Carney has the electoral advantage of having nothing to do with the Trudeau government.

[–] wise_pancake 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I don’t dislike her, but I don’t think she has any chance of forming a government or becoming the opposition.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 7 points 3 months ago

I think you're probably correct - she's got a lot of baggage simply by virtue of having served in the government.

Nonetheless, I think it would be good for the party to have a serious leadership race with at least a couple of legitimate contenders.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

And you think Carney does?

[–] wise_pancake 7 points 3 months ago

Party outsider with strong financial background, executive experience, and he’s going to be against two very unpopular party leaders.

Yeah, I think he’s got a shot.

[–] HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 months ago

Yes.

[–] Sunshine 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The carbon tax carney conservative ad nauseam would go into overdrive with him.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 3 points 3 months ago

Maybe, but he didn't have anything to do with this carbon tax, and his Jon Stewart interview seemed to hint that he feels some changes might be in order there.

[–] BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Just another policy wonk who probably won't win. Hadn't worked classically.

[+] Arkouda -14 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I do not support any person who has not been elected by Canadians becoming Prime Minister of Canada, regardless of who that person happens to be.

A PM's resignation should automatically trigger a Federal election, not allow any member of the ruling party with $350,000 and a few hundred signatures a chance to take over without one.

[–] foldor 17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Like it or not, we don't technically vote in a PM in Canada. We vote in a local candidate, who represents a party, and that party is in control of the party leader. So realistically, very few Canadians are ever actually voting for the person who is designated PM. But don't let that stop you from getting upset.

[–] Pyr_Pressure 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That's why you aren't supposed to be voting for the person as prime minister's, you are supposed to vote for the party you think will best represent you and your local representative within that party.

[–] Arkouda -4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

My point, that I believe was quite clear, is that if Carney wins the Liberal leadership race he will be PM without having to have been elected running for the party as an MP. Which is wrong regardless of how the voting system is "supposed" to work.

[–] Pyr_Pressure 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

But he would be elected. He would be elected by the people elected to be your chosen representative within the party. When you elect your local MP you give them the power to choose the leader of the party. If you don't think they will be capable to make that choice for you don't vote for them.

[–] Arkouda -5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The only people voting for the next PM are members of the Liberal party of Canada. Which includes the MP's, Citizens, and permanent residents registered with the party.

My local MP is not Liberal, and therefore doesn't get a vote. I am not a Liberal, and therefore I don't get a vote. If I had one, it wouldn't be going to a Liberal.

But I don't get to vote on the next PM because the next PM's platform isn't being tested against the other parties platforms in an election.

My point is if the PM steps down it should trigger an immediate election. The Prime Minister should not be chosen by a fraction of Canadians under any circumstance.

I would not be getting any resistance to this complaint, and minds would be lost, if Pierre Poilievre were PM and stepped down only to have Galen Weston jr. win the Conservative Leadership race and become PM.

[–] Pyr_Pressure 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Welcome to first past the post democracy.

Sounds like proportional representation would be what you're looking for which Trudeau decided against and most conservative politicians would never even consider.

[–] Arkouda -3 points 3 months ago

Sounds like you haven't read a thing I said because this isn't a problem with FPTP, this is a problem regardless of which system we use to choose MP's.

Feel free to make a point addressing what I said without the upturned nose.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No one is expecting Carney, or anyone else, to serve as an unelected PM.

[+] Arkouda -12 points 3 months ago (2 children)

No one is expecting Carney, or anyone else, to serve as an unelected PM.

My apologies, I didn't hear that the federal election was scheduled for March 9th after the Liberal party has chosen their new leader.

Do you have a source on that?

[–] Sturgist 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Do you have a source for that?

Well, I'm an expat, and I got an email from Elections Canada (edit)~~reminding~~ telling me to make sure my information is up to date before the end of the month. So pretty sure at least some parts of the government think it's coming down the line pretty quick here.....

[+] Arkouda -16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Well, I am a space alien, and Elections Canada sent me an email ~~reminding~~ telling me to disregard the next election entirely because I have been chosen to rule over Canada indefinitely. So pretty sure at least some parts of the government think it's coming down the line pretty quick here...

[–] Sturgist 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Have you considered taking a break from eating a sheet of acid a day? Might do wonders for your mental health.

[+] Arkouda -17 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I have considered it. Too much fun though.

Do you have anything meaningful to add or are you just going to keep being an ignorant troll?

[–] Sturgist 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Pot calling the kettle much?

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The likely scenario is that, immediately upon Parliament resuming next month, the Liberals will immediately lose a confidence vote, triggering a snap election. The opposition parties have all stated that they will initiate a confidence vote at the earliest opportunity.

In the unlikely event that doesn't happen, I imagine JT would remain on as PM until the mandatory election this fall. Were he to step down, he would probably appoint a sitting MP as interim PM.

As a fun(?) aside, Canada has had two PMs who served while members of the (unelected) Senate, and MacKenzie King and John Turner both briefly governed without a ministerial seat.

[+] Arkouda -16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The likely scenario is that, immediately upon Parliament resuming next month, the Liberals will immediately lose a confidence vote, triggering a snap election. The opposition parties have all stated that they will initiate a confidence vote at the earliest opportunity.

In the unlikely event that doesn’t happen, I imagine JT would remain on as PM until the mandatory election this fall. Were he to step down, he would probably appoint a sitting MP as interim PM.

There is a lot of "likely scenarios", "probably", and "imagination" required for me to accept your point of view when I asked for a source on when the next election is.

Please don't waste anymore of my time with conjecture.

As a fun(?) aside, Canada has had two PMs who served while members of the (unelected) Senate, and MacKenzie King and John Turner both briefly governed without a ministerial seat.

It is strange to support an argument that something won't happen by demonstrating how it has already happened.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Okay then, the next election will happen when the next election is called.

Let me know if I used any words that are too big for you.

[–] morbidcactus 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Our system is fundamentally different than the presidential republic that the yanks have, you do not vote for the PM, you vote for your rep. The PM is the person with confidence of the house, which often is the plurality party leader, but there's no requirement of this at all, there's history of the PM not even being an MP in Canada, two of them were senators who took office after the PM died.

Your MP is your voice, tell them to vote non confidence if you truly feel that an election should be called, I feel fairly safe to say however that once parliament resumes we're going to see that happen anyhow and the writ dropped shortly thereafter or the PM asking to GC to dissolve parliament.

[–] Arkouda -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Feel free to read the rest of the thread.

I have already addressed this, and won't repeat myself.

[–] morbidcactus 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

While I can get your intent in that you feel that the PM should have a mandate (again, arguably that mandate is fulfilled if they are capable of maintaining confidence of the house), Canadians are ignorant about our system of government (anecdotally, I know Canadians who consume more American news media and pay attention to their elections, but don't do the same domestically, likely contributing) which is a problem (and a point of irritation for me).

[–] Arkouda 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I understand how the system works which is why I disagree with it. I am also against FPTP, for Mandatory voting, and against the party system in general. Doesn't mean that is "how the system works", and that doesn't mean I am an "Ignorant Canadian" for stating something is wrong when it is.

The fact of the matter is right now only members of the Liberal Party of Canada get to decide on who the next Prime Minister is without that person being required to run an election campaign. All you need is a Liberal membership, $350,000, and a few hundred Liberal signatures for the top job. Which is wrong.

Electoral reform means electoral reform, and unelected people allowed a chance at becoming the Prime Minister is one of the things we should reform. Especially when internal party leadership elections are one of the big targets for election interference.

Funny enough, the only precedents for a Prime Minister not winning an election are Liberals. I assume this is because Canadians would lose their collective minds if Conservatives pulled the same thing.

[–] morbidcactus 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

First off, on reading, yeah sorry. I meant no offense, was the headline on the article I chose and I said, it really bothers me how disengaged Canadians are from our political system to the detriment of us all.

To be pedantic, Arthur Meighen was a Tory PM appointed after Borden resigned, and again after the Byng-King affair. More recently, Kim Campbell was appointed after the resignation of Mulroney

I do agree with you wrt our system needing changing, I'm vehemently in favour of literally anything but fptp but prefer something like stv. Personally, I'd also be in favour of rescinding the mandatory election dates put in place in what, 2007-2008 and really would like to return to the per-vote subsidies (just get money out of politics period).

[–] Arkouda 0 points 3 months ago

No offense taken, apologies if I came off that way. I agree with you on how disengaged Canadians are politically, and it bothers me greatly.

Fair points. One thing I would like to point out is Arthur Meighen led under the Conservatives before they became the Progressive Conservative party in 1942, and the Progressive Conservative Party occupied the space that the modern Liberal party occupies so I personally place PC's into the Liberal camp when I say "Liberal Precedents".

I wish more people agreed on the system needing changing, and really committing to it. I would really like to see a complete overhaul from the Constitution up, but know there is zero chance of that happening while Canada is still Canada.

Fixed election dates are a weird one for me. I think redundancies to keep a system from being easily corrupted are good, but I also think that fixed election dates aren't a good redundancy. It felt like something people would see as a good thing without having any real benefit. I agree we need to get money out of politics as well, but I do not see how that is possible when the primary reason a Government exists is to hoard resources which inevitably draws in people who want them.

If I am being honest with myself, I don't actually believe Democracy works. Specifically at the scale it is being required to work, and the conditions it is being expected to work in. Globally we need some new ideas.