this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2025
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Visa and Mastercard are American companies, and they essentially tax everybody by taking a percentage of purchase prices for themselves. Not exactly a small percentage either, 1.2% to 2.65%. Ever wonder why so many merchants say they don't accept American Express? That's because they charge quite a bit more to merchantes, 50% more than Visa or Mastercard. Anyway, we're letting American companies tax us and we love them because we get rewards when we use cards. But it's just a shell game because we pay more up front because businesses need to charge more to make up for payment processing charges. They get to sit in the middle and rake in the money.

Now the alternative in Canada is Interac. Interac charges a set amount per transcation. How much? 2 to 5.5 cents. Unless you're going through Apple or Google Pay, and then it's a percentage again.

Interac is also Canadian.

Want to stick it to Trump? Stop using credit cards (and Google Pay or Apple Pay) and switch to Interac. Want to make Canada better? Stop using credit cards and switch to Interac. Is it going to be inconvenient? Yes. Online shopping will be much harder but I have seen online Interac payments before and we can ask our favourite Canadian merchants to accept Interac online.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

Same with mastercard.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 hours ago

In Brazil, there is no alternative :(

For a huge chunk of the internet there isn't one either. If Visa/Mastercard suddenly decide they don't want to do business with you anymore, you're fucked.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I nearly asked "What about American Express?". Sometimes I wonder how I graduated kindergarten.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

It's okay, there are 35(?) countries I believe in America. 1 that gets talked about a lot. Being that they are discussing this from Canada in America, I'd say it's safe to consider maybe American Express could have been from Canada. Mexico, Argentina, Brasil, and most other large countries in America aren't English primary, so it would be harder to pass them off.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

From my experience, all countries in North and South America (except the U.S.) refrain from referring to anything they do as American because they would 100% be assumed to be U.S.

[–] LostWon 4 points 9 hours ago

Indeed, it took me a while to realize the other person meant "The Americas," aka North and South America and not the US, aka "America."

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 hours ago

Mine as well. I also used to spell Brasil with a z, but since Bubba Gump tried to rename the Gulf of Mexico I'm avoiding our naming conventions.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

Even if we dumped all online transactions and used cash for in person transactions, there isn't enough cash in circulation. Less than 3% of US dollars are printed on paper. The rest is just numbers on spreadsheets. There is no way we could function without electronic payments. This is true in almost every country that has a central bank that engages in fractional reserve banking.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 hour ago

Did you even read the post? Nowhere does it argue for ditching electronic payments. Outside of the west, alternative payment apps are widespread.

[–] arankays 3 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

is this the same interac corporation that won't do anything about their god awful etransfer system? no app like venmo or cashapp? how many years did it take them to implement autodeposit? why do etransfers sometimes take 1 hour?

[–] Albbi 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

You're complaining about something Interac does that credit cards can't even do? I'll wait while you send money with Visa by text.

[–] arankays 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

No. I'm comparing interac to Venmo.

[–] Albbi 1 points 7 hours ago

Ah, I see. I was comparing Interac to credit cards.

[–] rabber 6 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I actually need the cash back I get from my credit card though, it's more than 1000 per year

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 hours ago (2 children)

But you do understand that if credit card cash backs didn’t exist, prices would likely fall by more than the cash back?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

People prefer cards over carrying cash though, and you have to kinda work to collect the cashback. Most don't bother, which is why the system is profitable overall.

Honestly I think you're better off extracting money from a large corporation you don't like (if you can, it's obviously difficult) compared to ignoring them.

For example, if you really hate a company, flood their sales line with nonsensical calls. It'll usually be a domestic agent for the sales line, and in Australia at least the average cost to answer a call fully loaded, charged by a call centre management company, is around $30AUD. You also increase demand for low paid workers. If you could figure out a way to do this en-masse for a company without annoying the individual agent, you could do some serious financial damage in a way that's probably legal.

Edit: If I hated a company, and I had a lonely/senile relative, I would give them a special phone where every button on the phone called the sales line. That way the elderly relative gets a chat and keeps their brain active, and you get to cost the company hundreds of dollars a day. The sales agent is also unlikely to be bothered by an occasional chat with a senile person to break up their day.

[–] rabber 2 points 10 hours ago

Yeah that makes sense

[–] JohnnyCanuck 39 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

The Canadian banks are big enough to build a wholly Canadian credit system for global use, especially if they could get everyone in Canada (and maybe elsewhere) to switch right now.

They probably get too many incentives from Visa and Mastercard to find it enticing though, which is why they're always pushing credit cards and offering cashback and airmiles, etc.

I think there is a European alternative being developed. Perhaps we can get in on that.

[–] villasv 21 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

The Canadian banks are big enough to build a wholly Canadian credit system for global use

lol Canadian banks don’t even do their own credit analysis, and they rely on interac… they can’t even rollout the basics

[–] [email protected] 52 points 19 hours ago (4 children)

I work for an American credit card company, and my advice is to ditch credit and debit cards entirely. Use cash.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

Credit cards (when used correctly) is one of the few pro consumer products we have left.

Most cards come with fraud protection, something you cannot get with cash, checks, or gift cards.

Similarly, most cards come with purchase protections like extended warranties. I have a credit card that gives me free damage protection on my cell phone so long as I pay the monthly bill with it.

I'm not saying cash isn't great but there are good reasons to use a credit card. At least for now.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 19 hours ago

As another American who works in the industry, it's a wedding cake of frighteningly bad software piled on top of well-intentioned but poorly implemented mandates piled on top of willful ignorance frosted with solving problems people don't actually have. And the little couple on top are both the capitalist pigman from a 1930s Soviet poster that we all recognize thanks to Hexbear :`(

I prefer cash too.

[–] Albbi 13 points 19 hours ago (9 children)

I would love to hear your side of things. Cash is better for curbing impulse spending and it is of course anonymous but it is inconvenient. I feel like there's a target on my back when I walk around with more than a couple hundred dollars.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

YES, I ain't even Canadian but been saying this since day, those 2 companies are such a huge factor in how much leverage this 2 party dictatorship has over majority of the world, that and Microsoft, Apple, Google etc. This is why Cash is King, and using American payment processors just feeds their power and leverage over global finance.

You can see how its affected Russia when US payment processors halted operations as part of sanctions. The only viable alternative is using Monero for online transactions and physical cash.

Monero is the only realistic and promising way of paying people online without relying on the two largest payment processors on the planet, fully under the control of the US. The ONLY crypto that's actually treated and used as a currency, rather than a stock like btc, and actually has any real world use and offers privacy.

[–] [email protected] 68 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

Ahh, so as an American my only option is cash. 😔

[–] [email protected] 44 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

Cash is better for privacy too. Don't be paying for that abortion, gun, or donation to environmental cause in this climate with Visa.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 hours ago

No one has enough money, and this trend will get worse as this trade war goes on. Unless you can replace the credit buffer this initiative is a non starter.

To many people are living partly on a credit card, we need to ether replace it with an non american credit card, some other form of credit (LoCs are harder to get at the moment) or find a way to get more money to Canadians.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

See, not using Google Pay is something even I, a non-Canadian, European person can do. doingmypart.jpg!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 21 minutes ago

Most bigger Dutch banks used to have their own payment app, but they've all switched to integrating with Google Pay, and removed the alternative.

I've gotten used to mobile payments — to the point where I don't even know my debit card pin anymore — so it's hard to switch back, but damn is it annoying the service companies have gone evil.

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[–] melsaskca 4 points 13 hours ago

3 times in my life I took out a consolidation loan to corral all those costs and pay them off. Credit cards are both a blessing and a curse. Gov't should provide credit services at a reasonable, non-compounding, interest rate.

Between credit card companies, finance companies and the banks, the interest they extract yearly would put all the space billionaires to shame.

[–] ninthant 27 points 19 hours ago (4 children)

I’m on board for this but this proposal is up against a familiar devil: the network effect.

Shops support Visa and Mastercard because customers use them, customers use them because shops support them. This creates a powerful network that is extremely difficult for an upstart to unseat.

So while it’s a good idea to encourage people to take individual action on this — and you’re doing a great job doing so, and I’m taking it to heart for my own actions — we also need to accompany this with a policy solution to help overcome the network effect.

[–] Albbi 25 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (1 children)

You're right and the network effect would be very hard to overcome for this. It would need a lot of media attention just like liquor and alcohol.

I whipped this up too.

[–] ninthant 11 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

This is super cool. And you’ve inspired this Canadian to start moving more payments to Interac. Love the message and I’m on board.

My suggestion to accompany this with policy is not an alternative to taking personal action, but complementary.

One piece of constructive feedback on the artwork— it might be helpful to stress the positive aspect front and centre. For example lead with Interac with a maple leaf, and the American systems in lower prominence by having them 2/3 sized and positioned below.

Please don’t misconstrue my feedback in your mind as an attempt to distract or demoralize you through bike-shedding or anything like that. You’re doing great stuff and it’s inspiring.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 20 hours ago (7 children)

For this to work, Interac needs to incentivize using it like credit cards do.

All types of loans require a credit score of some kind, and credit cards are one of the best ways to build this. Additionally, credit cards usually offer some kind of return.

Also because of poverty, a lot of people have a dependency on credit or payment plans.

Interac needs to make a Canadian answer to the credit card.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (11 children)

I'm European. We don't get credit card benefits, we just get stolen from. Everyone uses them nonetheless.

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[–] wirebeads 26 points 20 hours ago

I’ve given up taking visa / Amex / Mastercard. My business now only accepts Interac e-transfer and cash.

Interac is hands down the most secure way to pay for something. I never have to take a card from a customer, the customer never has to take on additional debt, the money is automatically deposited into my account within seconds, and it costs me absolutely no money to do this and I have to pay no money to a merchant to make it happen.

I wish I could do this at more places.

[–] scott_anon_21 15 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

I have never yet had a problem challenging and reversing a charge made to my credit card. Their fraud detection also seems to be superior. On the other hand, members of my family have had to jump through hoops when challenging fraudulent Interac transactions. They have felt like they are being seen as the more likely perpetrator, and meanwhile the money is no longer in their account while the process drags out. Very stressful.

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[–] IslandLife 15 points 19 hours ago

I have a cash back VISA card. The week after Jan 20, I pulled my card info off every online service I use, stopped using the card entirely, and a few days ago canceled it completely. It was a tough choice. I generally earned about $600 a year cash back, but it's time to free ourselves of America and forge our own path. I don't really see the Can/American relationship ever being repaired at this point. Time to move on.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Just like tipping, a percentage system makes no sense. It's the exact same work to bring me a $50 meal vs a $500 one. And for payment processing, a flat fee makes much more sense because there's no difference in processing a $100 transaction vs a $10,000 one.

So why does a percentage-based system persist? Because workers want higher wages (understandable when restaurants refuse to pay them more and expect the customer to pay part of their income). And for giant corporations like Visa and MasterCard, it's literally never enough for them. They can make more money, so that's the only reason. It's so dumb...

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